Ah I know about routers, what I'm on about is Ethernet "modem's", find me one of them, like I said routers use NAT or a variation of NAT. Which not everyone wants, then you can find a Router that does infact route without using NAT but does it have a BT style input :)) not normally.
Ron
:)
They will have an RJ11 US style phone socket.
Even BT phones (just like dialup modems) have an RJ11 at the device end, and a BT socket at the wall end (or even an RJ11 if you have a microfilter setup). Just connect the socket the BT connection/microsfilter at the wall. The RJ45/Ethernet port will be on the PC side of the modem.
There are two modems on the DSL site in the link I supplied.
I think your getting the wrong side of the stick Carl, what i was talking about originaly is how easy it is to use ethernet from a cable modem, there is no real ADSL equivelent, this is because this country "does" not yet support PPPoE - this allows the modem to dial the adsl connection and route direct to Ethernet, PPPoA is different.
The link supplied list Modem/Router's - as you know this will be fine for home or buisness who require a sharable interent connection, but IS not the same as a cable modem/ethernet modem which has a direct ethernet output allowing you to connect straight to a hub/router/network card.
This was what I was refering to, the link I posted looks to be the first "ethernet modem" I have seen, if you can find one I would be interested.
As i said i have 2 here I'm using as book ends lol, and they cost 100 quid each :)
Ron
The Modems I sent the link about connect to the phone line via PPPOA through an RJ11, but they connect to the PC through a cross over ethernet cable (maybe even a stadnard cable haven't checked), or to a switch/router using a standard ethernet cable (maybe using the uplink port depending on the model).
They all talk TCPIP, and for it to be connected to a PC/Router/Switch they need to talk standard Ethernet. they work exactley like the cable modems at the PC side.
The only reason the USB ones need to be set to use DUN like an ordinary modem, is because alcatel couldn't think of a better way to tell windows what it is other than treat it as a USB dialup modem.
there is nothing at all wrong with actually bringup up and ATM line, and doing PPP negotiations, then disconnecting the PPP session and leaving the ATM line up, Just like you can manually dial an ISP's line and a PPP session (have a look at the Linux PPP howto's for that).
PPPOE ADSL is a Completley different thing to "Ethernet to the door" that is starting to catch on in the US, it just sends the PPP session data for authentication over the Ethernet protocol rather than ATM.
yes this would then be very much like a Cable modem.
But I can't see BT ever changing their system to PPPOE, because all the current hardware they have in the exchanges, all the ATM lines, and all the CPE setups (people like me who are still using the Alcatal Stingray/tadpole and the earlier USR/Cisco business routers) would be shafted. The guys with routers would need to have IOS/Firmware updates supplied (and installed by a BT engineer as it is BT equipment) users with the Alcatel USB modems would need to have new drivers supplied because the firmware is uploaded to the modem each time the PC boots.
As it is, modern modems and routers owned by the end user are there responsibility to upgrade, configure (and break), but it wouldn't do BT (as either a retailer, a wholesaler or a reseller) any good, because suddenly all there customers wouldn't be able to connect.
How can you not use NATS? My ISP provides one IP address over the cable, the modem is told what to use and the PC attached to it has that IP address. When the router is using it, each PC is then on a different subnet with NATS on my side of the router but one IP address on the service side of the router.
How does your version do it?
says...
hehe exactly,
You need a BT managed router, thats made by Fujisui I think, a non nat router. NAT sucks if your using it in a buisness enviroment unless of course you want to f*ck about with DMZ and serious routing issues.
I did post a link earlier to a modem that removes the need for Network address translation but almost all adsl modem routers use NAT in some way or another.
I want my 7 fixed IP's do go direct to my firewall, I want to choose if I want an internal subnet and ip configuration, but NAT is a good basis to stop hackers and stuff, it just doesnt cut the mustard when using exchange
2000 and VPN servers.Ron
NAT is a godsend, but can be a pig. If you want to use multiple web servers on the same connection and domains on them (or mail servers or databases etc) they need their own unique external routable IP address (otherwise you get into port forwarding/PAT, and non standard ports).
So you buy a router, and a block of IPs' either 1, 4, 8, etc. Setup a routing table on the router and route traffic from the internet direct to a real live IP address instead of a local private non-routable
192.168.0.*, or 192.168.10.* NATed one.
yeah thats why Nat is no good for me, :)
You use an Ethernet ADSL modem !
There are PLENTY that do.
It doesn't matter - there are heaps of modems that support our (and other's) protocol.
And there's no point cos their PPPoA system works just fine !
Agreed. And a PPOA ADSL router can just as easily have a routing table and a bunch of IPs with it without NAT.
And it doesn't have to be a BT pre-configured business router, you normally just need to buy your IPs from your ISP, and then know how to configure the router you bought yourself.
I've been trying to tell him :)
Sure. As to whether BT want you doing that on ADSL rather than some more expensive service is an interesting question.
Yeah, I can see this now. Cisco routers do that, but I don't know if ADSL supports them, ISDN does, from what I recall. That was the original point though, you can't buy an all-in-one ADSL modem that lets you route over ethernet. The fact that you can buy one with a network port in the back is muddying the waters a bit, but it's not the point.
Even on the single user USB modem service they had no problem with doing that. There official line is, yes you can attach networked computers, but no, we won't support it.
I checked with my ISP in advance, and NATing was cool.
Another ISP was offering IP blocks with the USB service, ideal for people settingup things line Freesco, or IP cop that could be used as linux PC based routers.
the ADSL part is irelivant by the time it gets to the router/modem. the line going in deals in TCP/IP data, and the router talks TCP/IP and routes packets to the destination IP.
Routers work on ADSL, Cable, ISDN, Dialup. All have a slightly different interface to the outside world, but once data hits the router, it knows what to do with it.
Hmm, I didn't check, just assumed. ;)
It's certainly true that I could set up an internet service for my neighbours to use and share the rental with them. Trivially easy, in fact.
The downside is any illegal activity would tend to be blamed on me.
Biggest problem you have is electrical which the power circuits being on different phases for different houses, but nothing legally wrong with you buying a 1mb ADSL connection, and a wireless router, setting WEP and giving you neighbours a username and password, or even making it open. Have a look at "Consume the net", a wireless project.
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