OT: WOOHOO

Exactly my point - you WILL want something comfortable to drive to work !

Granted, you may want a 309 GTi or similar as a second-car for doing your Road Rally lark.

But usually it does :)

Why ?

If you've got a bit of money, then why not drive a nicer car ?

Yep. But there are LOTS of other factors to take into account, other than how they drive ! Otherwise Vauxhall and Ford would have sold 0 cars in 1990 :)

But "feel and performance" are pretty much the only things it has going for it. Where's the AirCon ? Where's the luggage space ? Where's the comfort ? Why is it REALLY LOUD when cruising at speed ? etc. etc.

I agree, the 205 GTi is an excellent car. But as a daily driver, it pales in comparison to it's more modern rivals, for obvious reasons.

I was _very_ tempted to buy a good condition, low mileage Volvo 240 Saloon (saloons are stupidly cheap because everyone wants and estate) that came up for sale recently.

ISTR it went for only a few hundred quid.

Can't think of many more comfortable ways to get to and from work myself.

That was meerly an illustration, still doesnt mean it'll be a modern car. My Volvo is perfectly comfortable - some power steering, an extra gear and a wee bit more power and it'd be just right. In fact i'm seriously considering a 2.0i version when my one dies. Lots of toys, but the ability to cause absolute mayhem in a tank-slapper kind of way ;)

For the next few years i expect my road rally car will be my day to day car as well (as it has been for the last 3 years!).

Not in my experience!!

Or buy an older car thats equally as good and then buy another car with the money you've saved!!

But if feel and performance are the main qualities you're looking for then the 205 GTi IS a decent car. I've driven my 205 XS across France with 3 people (2500 mile round trip), shit loads of luggage, and loads more beer/wine, and it was perfectly comfortable. Spent most of the time doing

70+ and noise was no problem (bearing in mind thats over 4krpm for hours at a time). It was in fact very comfortable as the seats are very supportive. And i couldnt give a toss about air con - windows are good enough!

Depends on your priorities/situation.

Not sure if i'd go as far as a 240 :) The 340 is just right for me!

supportive.

Aircon is for wimps :) It saps power and ads weight, i have windows and a sunroof that open, although they are electric but i do like that one luxury :)

Spoken like a person who has never driven a car with air conditioning on a hot humid day. (c:

It works when you're stationary/moving slowly and you dont have to open the windows/ sunroof and suffer the noise and buffeting when you're going fast.

You stick less to your clothes. You are less smelly, if you carry passengers they are also less smelly (worth it for this alone?).

If it saps power and adds enough weight to make a difference, your engine isnt big enough!

I would have air conditioning rather than a sunroof on almost any car.

(c:

Douglas

WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMP! Manual windows and no sunroof for me

(yes i am just jealous :))

You can't use aircon in a ragtop because you look like an idiot in a convertible with the roof up on a hot sunny day.

Aircon is very convenient in winter, it takes all that moisture out of the air and defogs the windows in far less time than the heater (plus it begins to work quickly rather than until the engine warms up). It's also quite good in summer.

Having resisted aircon, I'm glad to have it now. HST, there are probably cars with cacky aircon that spoil the engine power and don't do much for the passengers. I'm thinking small engined, large bodied cars that have aircon bolted in to meet the competition's spec rather than as a comfortable design.

Despite liking aircon in one car, I also have a convertible that doesn't have it. Frankly, I wouldn't add it either, as I can't imagine a situation where I might actually turn it on.

I know someone that has air con in a convertable and loves because in summer it keeps his legs/feet nice and cool!

Precisely.

Yep. I defy anyone to not think of AirCon as a MUST HAVE, once they've owned a car with it.

supportive.

You're missing the point here. I totally agree that the 205 GTi is an excellent hot-hatch. But, why compromise on EVERYTHING, when you can have a good drive, good performance, decent build quality, a quiet ride, lots of toys, etc. etc. instead ? We're assuming you're earning some dosh, so money isn't the issue.

That statement simply proves you've never owned a car with AirCon. I thought the same, until I got my last Pug. Now, I won't look at anything without it.

No !

You're just being narrow minded, because you've owned lots of old cars, and you've got no cash. As I said before, a few years from now, when you've got a bit of money, and you can afford something genuinely good (not JUST good to drive, but good all-round) then you'll have one. I gaurantee it !

Oooowww! :)

But yo cant have everything - thats the point i'm making. 205 GTi is the ultimate in FWD hot hatches. I dont want quiet ride, lots of toys etc - i want fun, lots of noise, hard ride etc

Now thats narrowmindedness! Air con has to be my lowest priority when looking at a car. If its got it, great, if not i wouldnt overlook a perfectly good car. Thats just stupid!

Yeah, and if i still feel the way i do now - that WILL be a nice condition

205 GTi 1.9. I dont want a luxury barge with lots of toys weighing it down, and old man suspension to give it a nice ride, i want a 205 damnit, so stop telling me i dont! If you want some luxury, then fine, un;ess in a couple of years i'm doing lots of commuting, i dont!

Hehe :)

That's the point tho surely, it's fine for the majority of people. Sure, it may not handle as well as brand X or whatever, but that doesn't mean it's going to fall off the road at the first corner.

In fact, I've successfully gone round several corners in mine now.

Yep, that was exactly my point.

The 620 TI handles just fine. The SAAB C900 doesn't handle any better than "just fine", even though it's got fancy doodaa suspension.

But nowadays, you very nearly can !

Agreed, as a driver's car.

That's just crazy talk ! Anyway, how do you know ? Have you ever driven a modern hot-hatch - something like a Civic Type-R for a reasonable time ?

Yep :D

But you've never owned a car with it. I've had both with and withouth - and the "with" is infinately preferable.

Pah !

If it's got reasonable power and brakes, it doesn't matter how much it weighs :)

See the light, damnit !

I'm not suggesting you get a heavy "luxury barge" - by all means get a tinbox car if you like. Wouldn't you rather have a last-of-the-line 106 Gti, with the nice leather interior etc., than an old 205 ?

(I won't compare the 405 Mi16 with the 406 V6, cos I think I'd rather have the Mi16 if it was a *minter* :)