Re: MR2's are dangerous!

In news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, DanTXD decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

> If I'd put myself in the situation that most young lads do now - 1.2 >> Corsa + free insewerance, then I'd not have learnt how to control a >> powerful rwd car and all the glorious fun that's to be had from one. >> I'd probably be like some of the less experienced lads in here who >> think "FWD is safe, FWD is better" >> > > I don't think FWD is safe or better, but it wouldn't influence me > into my choice or car whether it was FWD or RWD, i don't give a toss > either way :)

only cos you don't know any better :-P

Reply to
Pete M
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Maybe you're just not good enough to handle FWD ;)

Reply to
DanTXD

FWD is safer its why they introduced it, a 240bhp car RWD with no TC and ESP is ludicrus.

Thats my opionion, I prefer understeer, but many prefer oversteer, its horses for courses :)

Reply to
Ronny

it's not ludicrus it's fun mate!

i'd never have anything that wasn't 4WD or RWD sod FWD it just feels so lame and ANYONE can drive a FWD car fast! :)

Reply to
Vamp

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

They introduced FWD to the masses because it's *much* cheaper to make fwd cars than rwd ones.

Initially the excuse was "you get more room in a fwd car because you don't need a transmission tunnel". They then left the transmission tunnel exactly where it was and said "we use it as somewhere to put the handbrake, but it's smaller than it was".

I actually prefer my cars to be neutral in their handling.

Oversteer, neutrality or understeer on demand depending on how you set the car up for a corner. Even my old Capri can manage this with no hassle. As can the Merc.

This is something most average fwd cars can't do. They can offer understeer, understeer or understeer. With a side order of lift off oversteer if you

*really* try very hard indeed. No fun at all.
Reply to
Pete M

It is safer though, its easier to drive, has better winter traction, better fuel economy.

Don't get me wrong RWD is fine, but once she goes shes gone, and thats what is happening to these kids.

Your right about the shopping trolly effect :)

I would not trust myself in a RWD car going fast, or would not like to be in a RWD with a "normal" driver going fast.

I have quattro and its next to impossible to make that spin out, no matter how hard you push it, but if you do feel like your spinning out just give it more juice :)

Ive had about 30 cars, mix of RWD and FWD and i've had some horrible scares in ford cortina's, snaking up the road in a 2L GLS :)

Reply to
Ronny

I don't agree about the winter traction. I've seen fwd stuff have to reverse up hills in winter to get traction. It's also one of the reasons why FWD stuff is pretty much limited to 250 bhp

because they learn to drive in FWDs.

I know ;-)

Not impossible, trust me ;-)

That's not horrible, that's the reason for owning 'em.

Reply to
Pete M

And to think its owners think it's better than the understeery MGF - the MGF has a better reputation for staying on the road and is much harder to spin.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Rubbish. Properly set up (as most are from the factory) a rear drive car is not more or less dangerous than a front drive car.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Front or rear drive, oversteer and understeer are available on demand in many cars. French crappy tinpot buzzbox hatchbacks will all oversteer if driven like a tosspot, and BMW 3s, smarts, MGFs all understeer when pushed too hard.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

is that a challenge?

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Cortinas were particularly crap, heavy nose, light rear, narrow tyres - my sister in laws 1.3 was deadly in the rain. But a modern RWD car should not be like that (although I've seen a few IS200s in ditches)

I've driven front, rear and AWD cars and I'd say the best cars are neutral within their grip limits and warn you of impending doom with understeer - rear drive tends to stay neutral at higher cornering speeds, and also often gives better turning circles and steering feel. Front drive cars can be very very good (Alfa 156, MG ZT, Ford Focus, Seat Leon etc) but cost tends to factor more into the design making many of them very comprimised and understeer to early.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

you seem to think im against RWD cars, far from it, I know how much fun they are, I just feel safer in a fwd car.

Most RWD cars nowadays have TC as standard so it totally cancel's the argument of FWD vs RWD but get in a TVR and drive it in the wet, or even ask VAMP if he would drive his MR2 fast in the wet?

I've driven a RWD 220bhp Omega with traction control and it feels safe as houses, but I would not like to go round a corner with it off.

Reply to
Ronny

Modern RWD like Lexus have alot of stability control stuff to help keep you on the road.

Theres no denying a new RWD car with all the toys will out perform a FWD car even a AWD, as shown by M3 vs S4 track days.

But I was talking more about cars of old, Grannies/cortinas/mk2 escorts/sierra's

Reply to
Ronny

I used to drive my 2wd Cosworth in all weathers and it always felt safe to me, and that was set up to virtually never understeer.

Power or lift off oversteer was the basic choice.

Then again, I grew up driving rwds. I still prefer them in "bad" conditions.

Reply to
Pete M

Which happen to be the ones I prefer to new "safe" rwd stuff.

Reply to
Pete M

I was waiting for a 2wd Cosworth owner to say somthing, how in hells name did you manage to control that thing :), I had a 2.0 GLSi Sierra and it was the most unstable car I have ever driven, and is what has put me off RWD cars for life.

It may have been that it had s**te tyres on it, but in the wet it just scared the shit out of me :)

Reply to
Ronny

Er... I've got something more or less as described there, more like 200 or so bhp but RWD and no sort of traction control. Doesn't have ABS either.

It's all a question of knowing how to drive RWD. When you plant the loud pedal obviously the back goes light and generally tries to overtake the front, so you steer the way you want to go and let the power come in more gradually. Or you just let it oversteer into the corner and take it sharper than *any* turning circle could allow. Lots of options.

Similar when you're in corners and hurrying along, if the back steps out you know better than to lift off, because you actually gain traction at the back by adding some power (it pushes the tyres down or something.) Cornering is simply faster in RWD, dunno quite why, but it definitely is there.

Not how it works, IMHO, FWD is a lot easier to drive because you don't have the sort of vices that RWD introduces. then again, you lose a lot of the potential because your front tyres are doing all the steering, accelerating and braking. In a proper RWD car, you corner with tons more feel through the steering and can use all the grip of the front tyres rather than sharing it with the power to drive the car forward.

I'm well in favour of FWD cars, it keeps the masses traveling more slowly and less likely to spin / skid, this keeps the roads safer for me to drive along in my RWD... ;)

Reply to
Questions

I've spun a 150bhp Omega - it doesn't take a lot of power to get the back end of them out but it did take a lot of provocation - we'd had the tyres smoking for quite a while on that roundabout...

Day to day though it was just another car.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

90% of Sierras will not powerslide. As for escorts, first car I crashed was a Mk2...
Reply to
Tim S Kemp

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