Re: MR2's are dangerous!

With RWD it is absolutely crucial to take it somewhere there is nothing much to run into (airfields are best if you can get at them) and find out where the limits are and how to keep the pointy bit ahead of you.

Arguably the easier it is to lose grip the better you will understand it and, if the worst happens, the slower you will be going when you hit "it".

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, snipped-for-privacy@quickwatchsales.com decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Well said that man. It's also excellent fun.

Denied to the FWD crew though. They just have the handbrake or understeer.

Once you know how to provoke it though, every roundabout becomes a huge grinworthy experience.

Nor will 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0. They can be provoked but then I can provoke the back end out on my S60 and my Zafira.

my corsa driving nobber cousin managed to spin his MGF within a couple of weeks, he now has a gay astra coupe' :)

i tend to drive like a big girl in the wet but that's because i don't like my current tyres and i'm waiting for them to wear out so i can get some nice ones :)

my MK1 was brill in the dry! so many chavs tried to speed match me into corners at 45-50mph and they would understeer towards the trees, so now do you think FWD is safer? probably easier to handle but just the same amount of prick driving to make it spin/crash!

In news: snipped-for-privacy@karoo.co.uk, Tim S Kemp decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Um, you're not very good at getting Sierras sideways then are you?

1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.3 and 2.8 Sierras all go sideways with the greatest of ease.

Yup they do, specially the 2.0 DOHC, it was sideways more than forward, and you could donut it with ease

I spun one the day I got one - but I was deliberately provoking it on a very wide and seldom used bit of tarmac. It took a lot of provocation.

Mk 1s and Mk 3s are great to drive - the Mk2 always seemed a bit all or nothing, quite understeery until it wasn't, if you know what I mean.

2.3 2.8 and 2.9 yes (I had a 2.8...) but I've driven the rest as well and they needed a combinination of dampness, crap tyres and stupidity to get the back end out - the 1.8 wouldn't even do donuts - just spin away the power on the inside wheel.

As for the 2.3 diseasel....

MK1 was sharp but could let go without warning!

the MKII is set to understeer a tad before the back swings out so is far easier to prodict, i've had the back in swing out when i left a T junction the day i picked it up, to much gas and the back sidestep out so i eased off and it came back real easy and smooth, looked the bollocks in my dad's rear view i'm told but i shat my pants lol

See below

Dont agree there. I've only got into an unrecoverable situation once in a RWD car, but that certainly doesnt mean i've been in 'situation' only once!

I consider myself to be a fairly competeant FWD driver, afterall they're pretty easy to master. As for RWD i started off in a £200 volvo last winter which didnt matter if i stuck it backwards into a hedge, the plan was to learn how to drive a RWD car. Incidentally i didnt stick it in a hedge, but had a great time, especially out in the snow. Then i went on to the more powerful version. Quite frankly this was scary in the wet when i got it. The tyres were made of teflon and the slightest little hint of throttle sent the tail out. But i never had an accident and spun it once (well a lame half spin) and that car got severely abused! Now i'm driving the MR2 which grips like shit in the dry and is still pretty dignified in the wet. But i by no means do i classify myself as a decent RWD driver. But with a reasonable amount of common sense and know how (thats the key, knowing what the car is likely to do) a RWD is no more dangerous than a FWD/4WD. What IS dangerous are people thinking they can drive cars quickly (FWD, RWD or 4WD), but then when the car gets to its limits and some/all wheels lose grip they dont know what to do! If i have the balls or not to drive my car quickly in certain situations i'm pretty confident i know how to handle it when its goes pearshaped as generally i'll be prepared for winding on some more lock/opposite lock/lifting off/pulling the emergency lever!

Er, that's exactly why it's good :)

Which is exactly the point !

MOST people, DON'T know how to drive RWD. The back comes round, they spin, they die.

That's why FWD is a better choice for Joe Public.

Now granted, it's alledgedly not as good as RWD if you're an experienced RWDer. But average Joe isn't one of these :)

I think that's what causes the problem highlighted above.

If things start going wrong for me, naturally the first thing I do is take my feet off the pedals, so the front tyres can get on with steering me (unless I'm braking, in which case I'll press the brake pedal harder to activate the ABS, allowing me to steer - net result is the same, in that I regain full steering control).

It's very effective - I've had plenty of moments, but never had an off/smack .

As you say, my instinct is completely the WRONG thing to do in a RWD car. So I'd crash and die !

I fully accept that RWD is probably better if you know what you're doing. But I don't. Ronny doesn't. Joe Public *certainly* doesn't !

(FWIW, I'm well aware of opposite lock etc. and have a good grasp of "RWD theory" - it's quite possible that I could get in a quick RWD car, and not die - but I've never really put the theory into practice, so I dunno)

"Pete M" wrote

Oh yes! I used to love roundabouts when I was a delivery driver in a Daihatsu Hijet. Engine set up for torque, zero weight over the rear wheels and skinny pizza-cutter tyres! Excellent!

Can't get the P6 to do anything near as fun :(

Mind you, good news is that "Reserve Met" is written on my ebay auction for it! :D YAY! (and the high bidder has decent feedback)

"Vamp" wrote

I bet! I wish I could have seen what the other drivers saw when I went round a corner on Coventry's ring road totally sideways in a 1960s beige mini!

The car started to spin on a right-hander and the process that followed was:

1) I resigned myself to impending doom 2) Having nothing to lose, tried to control it 3) Held it totally sideways for what felt like quite some time 4) Continued sideways down a slip road! 5) Got to the end of the slip road (by which time I'd regained control) 6) Had a huge grin for the rest of the week

A similar experience happened in a Cinquecento Sporting (outside a police station!). I had two female passengers though and over compensated with opposite lock, so the Cinq started spinning the opposite way! Took some wrenching around to get that back in order.

So that's two FWD cars I've managed to almost spin. IIRC I've only driven 2 RWD machines (the Dahatsu Hijet was a laugh and the P6 well, isn't).

Hmmm, the 2.0L Sierra I was in at knockhill being driving in a figure of 8 sideways for about a minute. That didn't have any problem powersliding.

Also managed to park it sideways which was most impressive.

Professional instructor did this as part of our skidpan course.

There is some insanity on that page...

no because a good driver can drive a RWD car faster! :)