Suspension and braking

That's a complete non-issue. I can count the number of times per year, that I drive on an ungritted road covered in snow/ice, on one hand !

And to allow you to *properly* steer, whilst *properly* braking. You can't do that without ABS, no matter WHAT you do !

Because you CHOOSE whether to have your ABS come on.

I have no problem braking hard into a turn, and feeling the ABS pumping away.

I could equally brake much earlier, and not activate the ABS. I could do that for 1.5 million miles if I wanted to.

So what's your point ?

Why ?

I'm completely failing to understand your post. The driver doesn't NEED to brake that hard - they CHOOSE to. As above, I could brake less, and do it earlier, and never activate the ABS if I wanted to. But what would that achieve ? Why would it stop me being a "CRAP" driver ?

You don't "lose" anything by activating your ABS - it's not like there's a finite useage quota, and it certainly doesn't make you a "CRAP" driver, as you seem to suggest.

That's the bit that I didn't understand either. Clearly if you're activating the ABS to help you stop, because you were too close to the car infront (or whatever), then you need to look at your driving. But that's not the case here.

I can't even remember the last time I did an emergency stop (if ever ?) - ABS assisted or otherwise. If you're aware of what's going on around you, then you shouldn't need to.

No problem. Unfortunately, Usenet is one of the hardest ways to make a point as you can't use tone of voice, body language etc.

Agreed 100%. The problem lies in the fact that a great number deliberately rely on it over driving skill. For me personally, ABS or not isn't an issue when buying a car but for many it is a big deal. I can only conclude from those who won't buy a car without it that they know their driving to be deficient to the point where they "need" to have it rather than it being a handy backup in a one off.

You shouldn't get into the situation where you need to do this though.

BUT THEY DON'T. Alot of the time ABS is used is in panic braking with the same end result, bang into the back of the vehicle in front. The drivers usually have their arms locked in a straight ahead steering position bracing themselves for the inevitable prang which will still happen because they've left themselves insufficient room and therefore time to think about whats happening.

if you see my other post, you will see that is why i dind't go nuts on you :)

if this is the case, then fair enough but you can't buy a new car now without it haing abs and all that crap on it so you might as well make the driving test harder by disconecting the abs and drivnig headfisrt into a barrel of cardboard boes in teh wet and for everyone the students knock over they have to go out and pick them up and put them back up again and, from driving a hgv etc, i know that, wheni took my psc test, the first thng they ask you to do is the emergency brake test if you fail that, you don't even egt ou of the test centre they shuold do that with all driving tests and you'd see how many people would fail i think the exact words were "you have to accelerae, using the gears, up to and beyond 20 mph by the time you reach that post. then you will have to brake to a stop before you pass the next marker post. procced in your own time"

snip

dojj, I'm not usually one to point out bad spelling, but is your keyboard drunk?

Agreed, I should not. And indeed, I've only activated the ABS through choice rather than _needing_ to.

However, the point of us having it is for those unforeseen circumstances when I need it. For those heart stopping moments when, on the approach of a blind bend on the B1225, you go around the corner and there's an oncoming vehicle overtaking a tractor. As an example.

Unfortunately, I shouldn't need my seatbelt, air bag, head restraint, insurance policy, door and steering column locks, and a whole host besides.

But given that every vehicle to manufacturers specifications is capable of locking the wheels, I'd say that ABS serves a potentially useful purpose.

No. The ABS isn't used, it's triggered.

This is a different argument; what you're saying it that it doesn't matter what the vehicle has, it ain't going to matter anyway.

Incidently, nothing is inevitable except for death and taxes. :)

snipped-for-privacy@Somewhere.Somewhere

I'm sure I've done one or two, but not in the Cinquecento, Mondeo or the Ka, so must have been in the Festers.

They weren't emergency stops, though, there were no other vehicles around and no hazards. :) I suppose, technically, the latter few weren't stops, either, just the heaviest braking the lad could muster under the circumstances.

The first was to see what it felt like (wet road, 25 mph). The second was to confirm what it feels like in the dry (dry road, 25 mph). Third was on ice, again to see what it felt like. Fourth and fifth on snow or ice, too. Sixth was braking hard on a rough hill descent to see how well it coped with uneven road surfaces. The last one was just before the JOGLE road trip with the Ka heavily laden, primarily to check the load, on an RAF runway from about 80 mph.

Yeah; they were all to see how the beastie responds when it kicks in.

My last car didn't have it, and I managed just fine without. My current car has it, and I manage just fine. It's great - just like leccy windows, and aircon, I won't buy a car without it now.

Well that's a ridiculous conclusion :)

I do.

In which case, they's stupid, and shouldn't be on the road.