302 Clevland????

To rephrase what Les stated, the only similarity between the Cleveland and the Windsor was 351.

Let me put this in a different perspective. Until I bought my first Mustang (my current car) I never even heard of a Windsor. In college, everybody wanted a Cleveland. Even today, go to a tire store and tell them it is Cleveland, and it is "Oh Wow! So that car is stoked huh?". "Everybody wants a Cleveland", I have heard countless times.

well the windors motor was definitely good as a back up to your brakes so when the bottom blew out of it the parts would drag you to a stop. Just kidding!! The Windsor motor was ok it just wasn't as good if you wanted a high performance engine.

according to wikipedia [edit] 302 Cleveland Note that there was also a 302 "Windsor" This engine was built only in Australia, and was intended to give their consumers a five liter alternative to the 351 Cleveland as the Ford "Windsor" series of engines was not commonly available there. Utilizing a locally produced 351 Cleveland block, 302 in³ (4.9 L) was attained by reducing the stroke of the 351C from 3.5 to 3 inches (89 to 76 mm). Additionally, the 302C cylinder heads were designed locally, with smaller combustion chamber to compensate for the reduced stroke of the engine.

This combination of closed combustion chambered quench heads with smaller 2 barrel style ports made a more powerful setup known in the USA as "Australian heads". These heads interchange directly onto 351C engines, and are highly sought outside of Australia as a low-cost method to increase compression ratio. They are a good street alternative to the over ported 4 barrel heads. Using the 302C cylinder heads on an otherwise unmodified 351C will increase the compression ratio beyond a safe level for regular pump fuel. Using the small chamber 302C cylinder heads properly requires engine design changes (deck clearance, piston design, cam shaft specifications) optimized for the intended use.

BUT, they were both actually 352ci, and they did share bore spacing, bore, & stroke dimensions.

Rob

And they both burned a mixture of gasoline and air. Just kidding.

mike

trainfan1 wrote in news:OL-dndUgqqTO9wHYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@usadatanet.net:

Actually, there is enough similarity between the blocks that Cleveland heads can be put on Windsor blocks with a little modification.

My father in law had an old 76 LTD wagon with a 351M in it.

Yes, you can still buy a bare 302C block, I've seen them on ebay when I bought the Aussie 351C 2 barrel closed chamber heads for my '72 mach 1. The aussie metal has a higher nickel content, so it's supposed to be harder.

Wow cool, now you really have me thinking about building a hot 70s mustang. There are tons of them here in the desert. I better start planning lol, and figure out how to tell the wife we might have a new baby.

sure the C heads can be "put" on a windsor block but not so simple

the easiest would be a 4V C heads on a 302 but still requires all boss

302 parts from the pushrods up and a boss 302 intake & boss type custom pistons, to use 2v heads requires a piston change & special non production intake

to put C heads on a 351w requires a special non production intake & pistons, etc.

simple? no!

expensive? yes

As you must know, the 351W was offered in 4bbl trim for many years beyond 1969. It was NOT a one year only engine - that is an erroneous assertion.

Rob

1972 Mustang had a Boss 351W version.

ROFL! Did you dredge this up on purpose to put an exclamation point on his inaccuracy of the SHO posts or was it fate??

Also, tell me the significance of your screen name there.

I missed the SHO posts, it was actually due to your pointing out his Hippocratic stance on OT subjects. I just sorted the NG by sender & found this little tidbit of misinformation from the same guy that was so certain Ford never made a factory cast iron intake 4bbl 302 in 1973.

Railfanning the Adirondack Scenic RR, LA&L RR, & Finger Lakes RR, & dabbling in Lionel trains.

I'll check in on the SHO issue.

Rob

Christ, you top posting Idiots, the one year only Ford "Boss 351" was a

1971, not a 1972, and it was most definitely a solid lifter Cleveland, not a Windsor...

The 1972 Mustang Boss you are referencing must be this, and is a non factory race car, again with a Cleveland, not a Windsor.

Not in a car, and certainly not in the Mustang, only a couple of odd creations after early the 80's, (one or two years pre-EFI ford trucks and one year for the EFI Cobra Mustang) boats don't count, Ford does not make or sell boats...

By all means show the ford listings from 1968~1980 for any car made by Ford in the USA with a factory four barrel Windsor other than 1969. Prove your assertion, which Ford cars offered the 351 Windsor with factory 4bbl and which years were they offered, besides 1969??? I won't hold my breath, the only factory cars you will find will be two barrel Windsor's or four barrel Cleveland's...

Go ahead smart ass... Show us all how smart you are.

While I may be in error as to W vs C, although I don't believe I am, my 1972 came with a 351 4v ( code R) coupled to an FMX. Near as I can recall (it was 35 years ago) the engine was much like my 289 4v A Code

65 FB, except it had about a ton of smog crap on it.... even though I bought it in the east and drove it to California when I returned from overseas.

Considering that the 1971 and 1972 model years were nearly identical, and knowing that it was not uncommon for Ford to use up last years parts and equipment in building new cars, let alone the possibility that someone may have special ordered a car such as this, I would not be so hasty in judging what was or was not possible. How many "unique" Mustangs which were not supposed to exist have turned up over the years?

While you may be correct regarding W vs C, I see no need to be insulting. It's not a life or death issue. If, at the scene of an accident, you observed someone with a sucking chest wound and the person tending to them was trying to bandage a toe, an insult might be called for, but not over an issue such as this.

1984-1985 Mustang/Capri 5.0.

I never said that. Chapter & verse, please...

I won't hold my breath, the

You don't have to be snide... or rude...

I just know where to get those elusive parts when they're needed... from recently produced Ford engines...

Castings/Parts

-D(x)J

-E(x)J

-F(x)J

will all fill the bill. 302, 351, 429/460 engines as you need.

Rob

I don't get it, but I know someone else who is a big rail fan. One of his pics...

An 88 5.0 with T-tops. Saw it, touched it, sat in it.