Idea of the muscle car is dead (Or, why Ford can't sell cars now)

The causal contribution of the Bush White House to the mortgage mess, the price of gasoline and food, and the weakness in the economy is most certainly not due to its devotion to conservative principles. The Bush maxim, "If someone hurts government's gotta move," is the polar opposite of conservatism. 180 degrees out, you might say. The

60% growth in the federal budget in seven years, the runup in food prices, and the disastrous nation-building adventure in Iraq came to pass for two principal reasons: one, that Bush is a buffoon, and two, that we had a unified government (the same party in control of both the White House and Congress) for most of the Bush years. These things, and any other Bushist disaster you care to mention, are 100% not due to Bush's "conservatism." I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Bush is a conservative, or even that he is right of center, either does not know the definition of conservatism, has not been paying attention or thinking for himself, or is an idiot. He's probably all of the above.

The correct analysis in any presidential election is, who ranks the lowest on the scale of buffoonery/amateurism/foolishness, and which party has control of Congress?

Unified government is the greatest evil of all, at least among those evils we can easily control. Since the Republicans have managed to manuver themselves out of a congressional majority for the foreseeable future, the choice of McCain for President is automatic.

On the buffoonery scale, Obama's promises that his administration is going to blow up the role of federal government, e.g., in the regulation of greenhouse gas emissions and in the federal takeover of the 20% of GDP that is the health care sector, at the same time as he intends to exclude the representatives of the affected industries from any role whatsoever in the writing of the thousands of pages of laws and regulations that these takeovers will require, gives him the edge in a walk. In fact we should retire the trophy -- after we have inscribed with the names of all the Obamaniacs who think it's a good idea to have the amateurs who actually write our laws do so without any input whatsoever on the part of the affected industries. How the f**k is that a good idea? It's nuts.

As to all the rest of the Obama agenda, he is more and more a stealth candidate, a blank slate blathering generalities that each listener can fill in with whatever content matches his personal values. That is the most dangerous candidate of all. That is exactly what we have in President Bush -- a content-free vessel interested in only one thing: power.

McCain is not a lot better on the buffoonery scale. But his small margin in this area, combined with the giganitc benefit of the divided government that his election would bring for at least four years, if not eight, makes him the far better choice of the two.

Put it this way: if you want to see another eight years with a 60% growth in federal spending and a no-holds barred assault on personal liberty in the form of Big Government interference in every nook and cranny of our private lives, vote for Obama. Obama truly represents the third and fourth terms of the Bushist regime. The difference will be a fine-tuning in the quality of the Big Government disasters that we will experience, but the quantity will be the same if not greater.

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one80out
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I didn't realize you were suicidal :0) "a bunch of broken down

30-somethings"???? It's just possible you may never see the back seat of anything with comments like that. LOL

I feel sorry for you :0) I've seen the back seat looking up, and I've seen it looking down, and sideway. Guess it's part of reliving my younger days when it didn't matter which seat you were in as much as it mattered who you were with and what you were doing. LOL :0)

Reply to
Spike

It doesn't? How about those who strap munitions to children and send them out to die in the name of Allah?

JFK was a Catholic, too.

Hope that doesn't happen. If it does, I think we will have fire and blood in the streets everywhere.

Reply to
Spike

SNIP

Well put.

In the words of Vladimir Lenin...... Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted. -Vladimir Lenin

Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever. -Vladimir Lenin

No, I'm not a Commie. Sun Tzu (c. 544­496 BC) in "Sun Tzu: Art of War" advised that in order to win, one must know the enemy.

Look up Liberation Theology and you find that it was an ideal started in South America by Catholic clergy to fight social injustice by the "distribution of wealth" using a Marxist model in the 1950s. This is what Rev Wright preached, and what Obama absorbed for 20 years. Add that concept to the Muslim model of his "father" and you have a basis for change. It's change. He'll break a dollar for you and you'll still owe 90 cents for the priviledge.

Which is better? To take a chance on the devil you know, or to take a chance on the devil you don't know?

Reply to
Spike

SNIP

Very likely true. I spent mose of my life traveling the world. What I found, from the deserts of north Africa, to the rice paddies of the Mekong, is that "those" people are not in charge.

His mother was an aethist. Two of his fathers were Muslim and extremist leaning. Yes they believe in a Supreme Being. Yes, many of the Christian biblical figures, like Noah and Abraham, figure prominently in their religion. Belief in a Supreme Being does not determine whether one is good or eveil in the eyes of others.

Even Oprah heard what he says he never heard. Perhaps he didn't hear anything because it fit with what he thought was right?

How many years did the terrorists plan to attack the WTC? Heck, they tried twice. How many "sleeper agents" have the Communists had in place in the USA awaiting orders? Being groomed to take over some aspect of our society to bring it down at the appropriate time? Money means nothing to such people. Germany did the same thing during WW2.

Kerry deserved what he got. He really deserved worse, but it would have been un-American for all of us who served in Vietnam to have lynched him for the accusations and lies he told. Talk about giving the enemy free publicity.

What was it before the embargo of the 70s and what was it after the embargo ended? Did it ever go back down?

I hope you can still feel that way when the new "social programs" designed to "redistribute the wealth" have been instituted and your taxes go through the roof to pay for them.

But you're banking on Obama to make changes for the good of the nation? If what politicians promise are simply "campagne promises", how can you believe what either candidate says? They both make promises.

That is true. However, if the Oval Office and the Congress both lean the same way, I think the chances are pretty good that Checks and Balances are right out the window, and the little peope, as Leona Helmsley put it, will be the ones who pay.

Reply to
Spike

Awwww. Ya been listening to that Dear Leader Al Gore again. :0) LOL "Ask not what you can do for your country; ask what you can do for me!"

Reply to
Spike

How is it that anyone can say Fox is biased for the right, and CNN ISN'T biased to the left? How is it that people who think that way believe that people don't listen to both, weigh the information, and come to their own conclusions? That is arrogant. That's saying you're smarter than anyone who believes different from what you believe and they ares stupid sheep, etc. Yet, from the opposite approach, you would only accept what you are told by the left and not be a stupid sheep. WTF????

Reply to
Spike

And you don't think people can see the bias coming out of thetalking heads of CNN, etc?

I don't think you can be a liberal thinker and have conservative values. You CAN be a thinker with an OPEN MIND and have conservative values. A conservative value is believing that people are responsible for their own actions, and that there is a right and a wrong. A liberal thinker tends to believe that society is to blame and should pay for the wrongs of an individual.

Example: MILLIONS of us served in Vietnam. MILLIONS of us came home to lead normal hard working lives in factories, businesses, public service, etc. A few thousands in all those years came home to rob banks, kill people, etc.

Now, the conservative is likely to say those who did such things are responsible for what they did and should pay the price. Sure, there may be reasons the individual turned to crime, but they still committed a crime. A liberal thinker says, it's not their fault. Society is to blame. Society pulled the trigger. Coming from a poor neighborhood made them bad.

Many many years ago, I supported a great Democrat, even though I was a Republican. He had bold ideas. Lower taxes would bring greater prosperity... and it did. He believed in the strong military as a strong deterrance against agression, and backed his belief, and it was. He had ideas of correcting social injustice by raising up the down trodden so that they might achieve their dreams, not be handed them, and people like Colin Powell rose to greatness. Then he was shot in Dallas. Yet his ideals lived on and proved correct. Then, the Republicans adopted his ideals, and the Democrats dumped them. Why? Why, when that era was one of the greatest periods of prosperity and achievement in our history.

Today I am an Independent. I weigh the factors and select a candidate based on what I believe is best for our nation in the long term. It happens that what I see best for the nation in the long term seems to lean more to the right. I honestly believe that everyone should have to work as hard as me to secure the same life for themselves. That nobody deserves to be granted extra rights and priviledges in order to address wrongs which occured generations before my family immigrated here. That everyone should serve the nation in some way as thanks for the rights and freedoms they have. That people are responsible for their own actions, as well as for their own successes. That this is NOT a nation where the motto is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." That there will always be those who have less than others, but that should not mean I have to pay to make up the difference. I worked to pay for my healthcare, and my taxes pay for others to get free healthcare?

Ya know, it really gets under my skin when people infer by what news I watch, etc, that I am too stupid to know anything... and sadly, I get that treatment far more from Democrats than I do from Republicans.

OK who gets the soapbox next???? Let's see, I had number 49. Who has number 50? :0)

Reply to
Spike

Makes a good paperweight? It's a nice place for a trucker to park his rig when you can't accelerate quick enough to get out of his way?

Reply to
Spike

Oh, man... I haven't even WANTED to do certain things in a car since I was able to have my own place. Sure, there was a 1972 Pinto hatchback in my youth, but that was pre-apartment.

Unless I was out shopping for professionals (and I'm not), there are plenty of far better environments than a too-small back seat in an automobile.

As to all those broken-down 30-somethings, the airwaves are chock full of commercials for pain relievers to take care of ALL of their aches, real and imagined.

:()

Reply to
dwight

Thanks for that. Conservatives have been tarnished for the past seven years, and, in fact, the term "conservative" has been hijacked as successfully as "patriot" or "christian." In so short a time, it seems that we've all forgotten what the words really mean.

dwight

Reply to
dwight

Apartments can be nice, although, I hate listening to me screamer neighbor at 2 am through those thin walls, and the language that was reaching my 6 year old was.... well......

I have a home. It has 12 rooms, a garage, a patio, and a big yard with a spa. But now and then, something different puts a bit of spice into a relationship. Backseats, phone booths, the lake, etc, makes for a nice change of pace and keeps boredom at bay. :0)

Yep.... and the same for men.... just don't get confused and take the one with the side effects that give you menstral cramps. My stepson said he'd rather have the illness or whatever than take that one.

Reply to
Spike

At the risk of derailing someone's sexual reveries, and as a darn sure way to stimulate snorts of derision, I want to mention the two-door station wagon. A squared-off hatchback. A "Kammback", to coin a (shudder) GM phrase. Picture that VEGA Kammback with decent motive power. If it were maybe five percent bigger, just the size of a five percent smaller Mustang.

If I had the money, I'd hire a designer and a prototype constructor to make me a 2010 Mustang Kammback wagon.

I loved-loved-loved the look of the 1971-73 Vega Kammback. It was a delight to drive, even with a hundred (optimistic) horsepower in a

2300-pound car. A five percent larger one would be roomy and less than 3000 pounds; with the 210-HP V6 or 300-HP V8 garden-variety engines, good performance. If they could keep the Vega-like balance and handling, a potentially marvelous compromise car. Like the Vega wagon.

OK, maybe ten percent larger. But lean, geddit?

A modern, right-sized domestic Volvo P1800 ES. Who could resist a Mustang Shooting Brake?

My Vega Kammback ( I was a thirty-something family guy, carrying Mrs, Daughter, four racing wheel/tires and camping gear to the races) :

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Reply to
Frank ess

Part of the trouble is that the way words are used determines what they "really mean". When your ten-year-old gets ready to vote in eight years, s/he will never have learned any other definition of "conservative", "patriot", or "christian". Sigh.

Reply to
Frank ess

I'm well aware of that, a neighbor 2 houses down is Muslim.

By that I meant that there are members who are Muslim and those who are atheist. IIRC I believe his mother was reported as being atheist.

One can get a good ear full of what he heard by listening to the pastor. And I believe Obama mentioned he didn't agree with that pastors views, he disagreed with his good friend and pastor for many years of attending the church. I just find that a little odd.

I'll agree there, but I'd rather have someone who says he sees no reason to raise taxes than the one who says he will.

Reply to
WindsorFo

So we agree then... that the Republicans have only been pretending to be conservatives.

lol

Intelligence, charisma and someone who articulates well.

I like McCain. But I would have to wait to see who his running mate is because I worry about how much four years in the White House would take out of him. If four years can age a 50 year old about a decade, what will four years do to a 71 year old guy?

Yet, we elected Bush/Rupublicans to two terms and what has he/they done for our country's industrial base? In a word, nothing.

I think Obama would be smart enough that once in office he'd select a bi-partisan cabinet.

Because, again, these two really don't know what they can do until they sit in the big chair. Campaigns are more about sounding/looking Presidential, than addressing specifics on issues.

From what I seen/heard so far, I don't think the Democrats will own Congress for very long anyway.

I think at this point, another presidential win for the Republicans would be pat on the back for the last 8 years of Bush.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

Nope. Not one bit. There are lot of religious people who have no character.

Actions prove character, going church every Sunday or reading a bible, at least not in my book.

the > name of Allah?

And what about them? They're extremists. Just like there are extremist here in the US who bomb abortion clinics, kill people because of their race or lifestyle, run cults and have sex with underage teenagers, and then claim they were doing the work of God.

My question is how can you condemn their Muslim religion because of their extremist groups, yet overlook our religious extremist?

But you know there are white supremacists out there who feel that if they could kill Obama they would be doing God's work. Are they not terrorists, terrorists with a Bible?

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

Yet, the connection is Muslim = terrorist. And, again, that's bullshit.

So? And..? Does that automatically make her a bad person? And does being a priest automatically make you a good person?

There's that Muslim = extremist thing, again.

It seems to be belief in the _same_ Supreme Being is the determining factor -- if you're Muslim you're not one of us/the good ol' boys, regardless of your character. Yet in this debate what is getting glossed over is the fact that Obama is Catholic. Good job FauOX!

"Perhaps" is a lllllloooooonnnnnnggggg way from fact.

Holy crap! WTF does ANY of this have to do with Obama?

Factoid: The Democrats are not an extremist group. They're regular Americans who make up about 50% of the electorate.

God-loving people don't lynch/kill anyone.

He fought over there. He earned the right to speak out. That's in our constitution -- freedom of speech.

Nope, but the price stayed flat afterwards for more than 20 years and we never used the time to develop alternative sources.

And the middle class is doing good now after the last 7+ years?

I'm not "banking" on either. But I think Obama has more potential to do some/more good.

So why weren't we trying to restore those checks and balances in the Bush years?

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

I don't know.

Studies have shown people listen to what they believe.

And if FauOX has a snippet about Obama "perhaps" being a Muslim terrorist...

What I believe is that the extremist on both sides control the airwaves and I'm caught in the middle and have to listen to their bullshit.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

Do yourself a favor. Go to this page --

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and click the link "WATCH: Pelosi Drills GOP on Energy Policy" (acharacteristically misleading left-wing-biased mainstream mediaheadline, btw) and watch the first ten minutes of Speaker of the HouseNancy Pelosi refusing twenty different ways to answer GeorgeStephanolpoulos's very simple question, "Why not give offshoredrilling a chance for a debate and an up-or-down vote?" Then tell meyou want to see a Democratic President with this woman running theHouse (not to mention the equally repugnant and dishonest Harry Reidin charge of the Senate). I'm a pretty complacent guy, with a lot offaith in the ability of this country to absorb the body blows thefederal government is constantly raining down on it. But thisprospect really frightens me to my bones. Speaking of those Democrats in Congress, you know that it takes only

40 senators to block any given piece of legislation, right? At no time during the Bush administration were there fewer than 40 Democratic senators. (For the past two years there have been 50 of them, plus Joe Lieberman, who caucuses with the Democrats.) At the same time, President Bush did not veto a single bill that Congress sent to him for the first six years of his administration, and has not vetoed more than two or three since then. For 7.5 years, therefore, those 40+ Democratic senators have known to a moral certainty that whatever they chose not to block was going to become law. Therefore in no way do the Democrats escape a full share of the blame for whatever misdeeds one chooses to ascribe to the Republicans and President Bush.

Speaking of the 40 senators it takes to block legislation, there is a possibility that the we will come out of the November election with fewer than 40 Republican Senators. If this happens there will be no check whatsoever on the power of the Democrats to pass any piece of insanity they can dream up. The delusional and dishonest Nancy Pelosi in charge of the House, 61+ Democrats in the Senate, and The Chosen One sitting in the Oval Office -- that is a truly appalling prospect. Images of the Antichrist and his apocalypse are not difficult to conjure. Again, under these circumstances the choice of McCain for President is automatic.

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one80out

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