Smart people buy Priuses

I've had my fair share of problems with Fords and zero problems with my Prius. But if push came to shove I'd take a GM if I couldn't have my Prius. As far as the other Toyotas, I'm not interested either. I like the style of the Ford Escape hybrid but problems earlier are so deep rooted I could never pull out the check book and purchase one. Fuel efficiency is my highest interest. I drive about 400 miles in a week and I visit a gas station once every 7 to 10 days. That's all I care about. That's the only thing to care about other than oil and filter and tire pressure.

Are you aware of the fact that Ford has licensed from the Toyota "hybrid synergy drive" system for use in the Escape hybrid?

- Doug

I snagged a spare Prius battery on Ebay for $550:

160140387382

My current battery is quite healthy. I'll refurbish the second battery, add one modification and then I'll swap it with my perfectly good battery. This will leave me with one impressive, second battery pack.

I'll refurbish my perfectly good battery (i.e., check the cells and normalize the charge) and will use it for backup house power. This will allow us to float through any power outages and keep the second battery in a good state of charge.

It looks like they go for about the same price as a gas-only, automatic transmission. I test my transaxle oil and so far, they have come back with normal wear patterns. Since they have a fraction of the number of parts of a traditional, automatic transmission, I expect it to last a very, very long time.

Bob Wilson

. . .

It isn't listed on the bill of sale nor the window sticker. The lying "Marketing Firm" that claimed such nonsense is a fraud:

"Hummer versus Prius: "Dust to Dust" Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science"

Still the "Dust to Dust" report us find candidates for the "List of Little Village Idiots."

Bob Wilson

Then you are part of the problem and not the solution. Thanks for sharing.

Mmm, not quite what both Ford and Toyota say: Ford independently invented a system which was so similar that they cross-licensed rather than sue each other. An example of great minds thinking alike.

The Prius uses NiMH for the hybrid batteries, and an AGM lead-acid traditional 12v accessory battery.

The NiMH hybrid batteries are controlled by a very good battery- management computer, such that it is never completely charged or drained, which greatly impacts its lifespan. As opposed to most consumer products, which regularly are drained and then overcharged...

Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment):

'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader inorder to read it, but the entire document is written in English.) Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid- sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km. The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)

"Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side and the truth." John Sheridan on Babylon 5 - "Into the Light" written by J. Michael Straczynski

I appreciate the clarification. I was either misinformed or I misinterpreted what I read about it.

The Escape hybrid didn't seem to catch on, though, did it?

- Doug

With a freshened design and updates to the mechanicals it's actually doing pretty well with over 2600 of them sold in May and dealers screaming for more.

" Spruced-up product and some marketing are paying off for Ford in higher sales of its Ford Escape Hybrid and Mercury Mariner Hybrid.

The already-released 2008 models got an exterior makeover, the interior was improved in terms of appearance and functionality, and extra insulation was added for a quieter ride. Side and head curtain airbags are now standard, as are automatic climate control and an MP3 player input jack. The optional navigation system was revamped as well.

In addition, Ford has been featuring the hybrids in its national advertising.

As a result, sales of the Escape Hybrid climbed to 2,680 in May from

1,890 in May. The average transaction price dipped only slightly from to $27,953 from $27,997 in April. TCI dropped 43.2 percent to $650 from $1,145.

Similarly, Mercury Mariner sales rose to 534 units from 385 in April; the average transaction price dipped to $29,632 from $30,237. TCI dropped to $951 a vehicle from $1,744 in April.

And dealers nationwide are screaming for more. Days-to-turn of the Ford Escape Hybrid is just 21 days, suggesting many dealers have none. Days-to-turn on the Mariner Hybrid is higher at 40 but still low. "

Only 100,000km? That can't be right, that's only about 62,000 miles. If your lucky a Yugo would go that far! (OK maybe not a Yugo but a Pinto would!).

Jeff DeWitt

I had a friend with a Rabbit diesel back in '83. Didn't run nearly as well as the Prius and while it _sometimes_ went 50MPG, my Prius has done 52+ for _all_ gas into it for 15000 miles - and it's faster, quieter, roomier ... but the Rabbit seats _were_ more comfortable.

The household fuel consumption dropped by 13 gallons a week since we got the Prius with no fewer miles driven. Hybrids_do_ make sense in southern CA.

GG

Wonderful! Now we can expect clean, reliable Diesels to conquer the market. Diesel plug-in hybrids even more so, by virtue of their further improvement in fuel economy and elimination of failure-prone conventional transmissions.

I disagree with that. I see hybridization as a central enabling technology for passenger cars for at least half a century. The primary power source may not always be a combustion engine; hybridization works well with fuel cells, as Toyota is finding. The essence of hybridization is to provide an optimized load for the power generation regardless of what the nut behind the wheel is doing with his right foot, and in so doing it makes acceleration performance increasingly independent of the size of the power source.

Even in the present generation (no pun) hybrids are disconnecting accessories from the engine. I see that as a crucial step toward any future cars.

BTW - turboprops are still a modern powerplant and eminently practical for shorter hops where turbofans are just too inefficient or where runways are too short. The wife and I just returned from Alaska and made the Vancouver to Seattle leg on a Bombardier turboprop. When flying higher and faster turbofans come into their own.

Mike

My uncle drove a Rabbit Diesel w/ a 5-speed. At least until his doctor told him to give it up after his ears started ringing from the ear-splitting noise. It had the dual benefits of a loud diesel engine coupled with virtually no sound insulation. While a modern car door will go thud, the Rabbit diesel went clank.

I stand corrected on turboprops, however please note I said the CURRENT hybrid technology. A Prius or similar car is more of a gas powered car with an electric assist and because of that it's a lot more complex and expensive than it needs to be (and so also less efficient).

They ARE an advancement over conventional drivetrains, and your right about the usefulness of disconnecting the engine from the accessories, that is going to become increasingly important as automotive technology advances.

And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.

Jeff DeWitt

Although many diesel locomotive are diesel electric, there's no buffer battery between the diesel engine and the train. The generator-traction motor setup is nothing more than the system that transmit power from the engine to the wheels.

cu .\\arc

True, but having diesel engines and electric motors meets the dictionary definition of hybrid.

"something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function"

Both the diesel engine and the electric motors produce mechanical energy sufficient to operate the locomotive... and yes I realize I'm being a bit picky here

Jeff DeWitt

If I'm understanding it right, the electric part is merely a transmission rather than a motive source. Oddly, "how stuff works" still refers to it as a hybrid system although there is no secondary source of electric power; it comes straight from the diesel. The train doesn't move if the engines aren't generating power. Now it's my turn to be picky ;-)

Mike