At fckn last ... SAAB have come up with something that makes a modern car worth buying. I must say, my allegiances started to slip towards Volvo over this matter, but SAAB have finally "got it".
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
This info has been floating around for a few months now. One question I have, is if the engine can operate equally well with varying blends and with ethanol outperforms its gasoline powered brother, why not just include it by default in all Saabs? Or is this the ultimate goal?
- tex
in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 03/10/2005 20:34:
The article was from April, but was part of a wider article about fuel that I was reading.
As a first step, I would think so. I know of a few people who regularly use smaller concentrations, say up to 20%, ethanol as an octane enhancer for track days. It seems to be good on the late 9000s onwards ... Were they Trionic-5, or Trionic-3 throughout the production? It works.
If SAAB is to move away from petrol (and/or diesel) as the primary fuel source then this is a good first step. I suppose it depends what kind of hand-in-glove relationship GM has with the oil companies.
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
It's going to take a bit more than just Saab cars to convince most petrol dealers to also start vending ethanol based fuels. Without widespread places which offer e85 fuel these vehicle offerings are moot. I know in some parts of the US anyway (mostly in the midwestern states where corn crops are king), ethanol blends are already offered at many fueling stations (but it's hardly widespread).
Car companies today, including GM, realize that gasoline fuels are invariably on the decline. Long gone are the days when it was populist to think the car companies had an overly cozy relationship with the oil industry. In 20 years, car companies want to sell double the number of vehicles they are selling today. They know the only way they can conceivably do this is by coming up with vehicles fueled by non-petroleum resources. So the more important relationship here is between Saab and GM itself...will GM want to plunder the Saab technology for use in its other vehicles? I don't see why it shouldn't That would certainly give the technology a chance to prolifer.
- tex
I believe from what I've heard the Sweden is 'pushing' E85 to reduce dependence on imported oil. It probably does indeed need a government driven incentive to make things change. Left to their own devices, I'm sure that oil companies would prefer not to bother.
If GM had some brains they might do ! I see no evidence of this. I keep looking at the '06 9-5 and wonder what the hell's going on.
Graham
in article ztednbuyutyfx9 snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 04/10/2005 11:31:
That's quite true. The fringe market it always interesting to watch, though. LPG (for example) is sold at a few outlets in the UK, but as you well put, it's not widespread.
I would hope they do. What I understood about the SAAB bio-power car was that it could feasibly run on petrol or E85 or any concentration in between. The Trionic-7 system is full adaptive to the fuel. I may be wrong. I may have read more into it. While I still see this as a first step towards a non-petrol car, it's a good step IMO.
Unlike many other alternative fuels, the FFV is capable of running on petrol or a substitute (E85 in this case) without the need for a second fuel tank and without the need for an alternative fuel delivery system to switch over to. Now, one of these engines with a switch-over electric engine operating on the rear axle for in-town driving ... I'd buy one ...
What I fear is a future where the sound of snorting V8s, burbling SAABs and grumbling TVRs are a thing of memory and a tear in the eye of the likes of you and me ... Sure, the air won't reek of petrol, but ... :)
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
I'm guessing there must be some drawbacks to the system designed by the Saab engineers. perhaps mainly that they designed it around a turbo-charged engine?
Heehehehe! Agreed...it's still styling is not easily for the eyes to digest.
- tex
in article snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com, Pooh Bear at snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote on 04/10/2005 14:00:
Your absolutely right. Sweden have pledged to rid their dependence upon oil by 2020. That they have also a programme to cease nuclear power is going to be an interesting one to watch ...
I'm sure countries like Holland (and indeed the whole Netherlands, no doubt) will adopt a similar stance very quickly. I hope it spreads to the UK, too. The FFV will be sold in Sweden, the UK, Ireland, Holland & Spain, as well as China and Brazil. Okay, trial markets, but I bet the out-letters of LPG will have a stock of E85 overnight!
What I like is that SAAB are once again truly deserving of the term 'eco-power'. Nice one! Now let's hope GM don't make an arse of it :)
Paul
1989 900 Turbo Sin article 1vednYEtLcsOVt snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Tex at snipped-for-privacy@aspam101.org wrote on 04/10/2005 19:36:
Most of it is not too bad, especially when looked at in context with the SUV. The lower fog lights are just the wrong shape for the car ... That shape looked wrong on Subaru, too, which is where I think it came from.
The publicity shots make it look worse than it is. Actual photographs on the road, in real light look okay.
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
LPG penetration is roughly 1 in 10. How does that compare to always trying to find Optimax for example?
We have a car which was converted a couple of years ago and we considered the issue of number of LPG pumps. The difference is one of planning, nothing more, in that when going on a journey, I'll use one of the many resources available to check up on where the LPG pumps are.
Choices include, a full country map, a website specifically for searching by town, road, postcode or my favourite which is an Autoroute overlay.
In two years I have run out about 4 times I think, the furthest I was from an LPG filling station was about 5 miles. Sure that wasn't by chance but because I knew where they were and how to plan.
As I said though, how does that compare to driving around without a care in the world then realising you want to fill up with solely Shell Optimax? So you might say "ah, but I can put *any* petrol in if i'm desperate!" and my response is "So can I!". I still have a 15 gallon fuel tank with a petrol system so it's not exactly a problem.
In fact it's arguably better because if you go and fill the Saab tank up with lower grade fuel, the ECU will adapt down and then you have to re- adapt once you've got rid of all the low grade fuel.
What you won't find is huge signs saying LPG all the time, you just need to know where to look. In fact, sometimes when pulling up at a filling station which says it does LPG, I *still* have to search to find it and have resorted to getting out and walking the pumps at times because they blend them in so damn well! :)
Certainly if you're not looking, you won't see them.
David.
in article snipped-for-privacy@news.cable.ntlworld.com, David Taylor at snipped-for-privacy@bigfoot.com wrote on 05/10/2005 08:40:
Well that certainly is interesting. More widespread than I thought. You're absolutely right about the chance of finding a particular garage that stocks your choice of petrol being a good comparison to finding LPG. Very interesting reading, indeed.
Remind me, what car you run LPG on. The mechanics (5 or 6 door up the road) have an LPG tank and I've always been interested. I just need the right car.
Paul
1989 900 Turbo Sin article BF6B3657.16028% snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk, Paul Halliday at snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk wrote on 06/10/2005 20:15:
I have just been reading that the FFV is now ready for the market! SAAB have a "greater than expected" pre-order of around 800 vehicles and are releasing the car in Sweden imminently. Certain other EU states to follow.
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
Am I allowed to say, it's not a Saab ;)
It's a Volvo estate. If you want any more info, i'll happily take further Q's offline rather than digress too much on the Saab newsgroup.
David.
in article snipped-for-privacy@news.cable.ntlworld.com, David Taylor at snipped-for-privacy@bigfoot.com wrote on 07/10/2005 08:30:
Course you are!
Volvo, eh? No great drama - much respect for our Volvo brothers here, I would think.
I can't see LPG being *that* good for an 8V C900 turbo, but I always had it in mind for any 9000 that I might own. The car might be worth the investment, if you see what I mean. I still regard LPG as a good fuel alternative at the moment, but given this ethanol idea, I can't help thinking whether it would work well with a Trionic-3 or Trionic-5 car.
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
Paul, Please..."cousins" at closest, not "brothers".
Oh - by the way, my daughter (age 7) greeted me at the door yesterday with "Hey dad, you've got mail from the Queen!". Seems that there's an envelope which arrived, with "Royal Post" on it, from a friend of mine in England. Thank you very much, they're quite nice!
Dave
P.S. My daughter is a bit put out that you're not the Queen. Can you make some calls maybe?
in article snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 07/10/2005 21:30:
Being a C900 T8 owner, I like "brother". The Volvo 8V block is very similar indeed. If I was an older/newer owner, perhaps I'd think "cousin" :)
Yay! Thank fck the Royal Mail still have the capacity to actually deliver mail to its intended recipient! We have "some issues" with the service over here at the moment!
Now stick them on your SAAB and go tear up some road!!! Must be worth a good
20-25 BHP on any pre-1973; perhaps 5-10 BHP on a good C900T or 99T.I'm not much into granny cross-dressing, or the accent, but I could try :)
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
This is up there with "damn and blast British Telecom", is it?
Sweet, my '63 will be...58-63 horsepower! W00T!
I need to get that thing on the road, dammit, but the state is _still_ dicking me around with the title replacement.
Naah, no point, she'd spot it. Well, she caught on to the "ladies" on Monty Python's Flying Circus, anyway. So...ever seen ER? I spent 3 months over there in 1991-ish, and she changed my schedule when the two of us had a little encounter at Victoria Station...
in article snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 07/10/2005 21:46:
W00T! Bet thank thing will roar now :)
The 99T? Got a link to any progress? Is she fixed up yet ... Apart from the red tape, of course?
It's the Batley Townswomen's Guild that always cracks me up .. I went to school in Batley!
Our lass Alex Kingston? Yeah, I can "feel that" :)
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
A bullnose 96 is astonishingly nimble even with stock horsepower. GREAT fun in the snow.
No linky...I'm not too gud with tha interwebs stuff...
Drives great. Er, that is, if it was legal to drive, which it isn't, of course, so I wouldn't consider test driving it. Yea, that's it. Zippy little fscker, I'll tell you. Well, less so after I figured out the wastegate was seized shut, but still zippy now that I fixed that. Which again, I wouldn't know because it's not legal to drive yet. Or something.
(google)
Nope, that's definatly not the lady I saw in the hat and the Rolls Royce. Hm, nice though. Look at those ... eyes... (For the record, her IMDB photo doesn't look like the other ones google pulls up.)
in article snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 07/10/2005 22:02:
Gah! WTF? You're right ... Curioser & Curioser ... I'll let the old grey matter mull this one over.
For your edification ... Other Cirrus White T8 pilots are sporting the gang liveries :) Mmmm! Nice Incas :)
Paul
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