How could lug nuts break on a car?

Why guess and go out and kill yourself or someone else?

Just check with the maker of your vehicle and see what they recommend.

These so called 'pro's' on this group are saying the 'winny' (sic) engineers don't know what they are talking about when they say to mount wheel lug nuts dry.

These 'pros' say 'experience' says different than the engineers and there is just no way it's 'their' anti-seized tires falling off the trucks....

Mike

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote:

what torque do you use then? If GM calls for 100 foot pounds for my wife's Beretta's lugnuts, I've always assumed that's dry. I _like_ the idea of antiseize...

Because of the extremes of opinion on this group with the free advise, (you get what you paid for) I would highly recommend you simply phone up GM and ask them.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

I was taught to use anti-seize on tire lugs. Been using it since I was a little boy hanging around Dad's shop. Dad has had the shop since

1959 and has always used anti-seize. There are lots of ways of doing things, this is how I was taught. Gm would probably say to not use it, but I know a few of the techs at Reichert Cheverlolet and they use it.

Well, here is the problem: If a manufacturer or a engineer recommend a lubricant on wheel studs then some idiot is going to come along and overtighten and cause a dangerous situation which could be blamed on the company. On the other hand rust and corrosion on lug bolts/nuts causes many more dangerous situations but rust is not the fault or responsibility of the manufacturer and therefore they have no interest in addressing that problem. They no they won't get sued if the wheels rust on or even fall off due to rust

Personally, I've been using marine grease on lug-nuts for 40 years and never had one that I tightened come loose or break. I learned that trick from an old mechanic who had been doing it for probably 50 years before that. You by contrast, have no (as in nada, zip, none) personal experience or evidence to back up the claims you are making about the dangers of using lubricants on wheel fastener threads. The only thing you have said is that if you were to use it you would be twisting off the lugnuts when tightening. This is probably true. I strongly advise you do not use any substance on wheel fasteners. Better yet, get someone else to tighten your lugnuts for you.

I've seen many stripped, sheared and occasionally missing wheel fasteners. Absolutely none of these had anti-seize applied and that was not ever the cause. In almost all cases rust was the root cause. Should I conclude that the failure to use anti-seize is what caused these dangerous occurrences?

-jim

Instead of getting many different opinions just call the local Chevy dealer and ask them how to avoid busting yer nuts (lug nuts).

I responded to Kevin because of his credentials. But before I used anything but factory torque specs I'd do extra research... :)

I haven't run into that problem since my vehicles started using cap nuts that keep the water out on the wheels.

I also don't see anything wrong with coating the exposed threads with grease 'after' the nut is on....

My first job changing tires in a garage shop was in 1968. My last job in a garage shop was in 1996. I have worked in shops coast to coast and have 'never' seen lube recommended for tire lugs.

The only thing

'I' personally have used a torque wrench for years.

Lack of maintenance more likely, but rust is just plain nasty and is the cause for lots of part replacements and premature failures. Doing something dangerous because you don't want to have to upkeep the vehicle isn't really smart in my mind.

Like I have said to others, when in doubt about a life threatening issue. Phone up your vehicle maker and ask.

Lawrence just posted Ford's take. Dry lugs!

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

I have had good success with using the factory recommended torque. No stripped threads or broken lugs so far. I might add that the factory specs pertain to the wheels that came on the car from the factory and some aftermarket wheels require different torque, maybe even retorquing after 500 miles driving. The truth is, many years back I never torqued the wheels on, but back then everything was a lot beefier and you didn't have the problem of warped rotors like you do now days. Probably since about 1885, I always use a torque wrench and the factory torque specs where possible, even with never seize. On vehicles and trailers with no available torque spec I use my better judgment and a torque wrench. Usually go 80' lbs for 7/16' lugs and

100' lbs for 1/2" lugs. For 9/16" I use 125 - 140'lbs.

Now here's the kicker.... I teach automotive technology at a State technical college, and I do not let my students use never seize on lug bolts. I am required to teach them to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. They must properly clean and torque the nuts with no lubrication unless otherwise recommended by the manufacturer. My knowledge and experience tells me one thing, but my job requires another. The only lugs I use never seize on are on my own vehicles, or on vehicles who's owner agrees to the benefit. When I ran a service department, I would not let the techs put never seize unless the customer requested it. Truth is, you can't go wrong torquing them on clean and dry. The bitch is later when you have to get them off the rusted lugs. I guess the only way to satisfy everyone would be to torque them on clean and dry, then remove, clean, and retorque them at least once per year to prevent them from rusting on solid.

My brother came home last night can't drive his car because two of the lug nuts broke and two are miss Possible cause: Lug nuts improperly tightened. Idiots in shops with big air guns can do this. Now I always check the lug nuts with a torque wrench whenever a wheel is removed.

____________________________________________

Five (of eight) studs snapped on a rear wheel of my motor home 200 miles after new tires were installed by Sears in Fairfield, California. The installer had bragged that lug nuts were torqued at the proper

125 ft-lb while using her clicking torque wrench.

I had seen the installer run the lug nuts on with an air gun, then apply a torque wrench until it clicked. But I remembered that the lug nuts had never moved under the torque wrench. Then I realized that the installer had been too lazy to take the time to make the final tightening with the torque wrench. Instead, she had blasted on the lug nuts to some unknown excess torque and had applied the torque wrench afterward just for show.

Now I always check the lug nuts with a torque wrench whenever a wheel is removed, and I try to watch technicians installing my tires, and I haven't shopped at Sears in fifteen years.

Rodan.

You keep calling it dangerous. You have no evidence of this. That's being dishonest. The fact is spinning the rusted lugnuts off rusted studs does compromise the integrity of the threads. Doing this repeatedly over many years with a small loss of metal each time can lead to a dangerous situation where the wheel fasteners no longer perform as well as they should. But if a 1000 wheels fall off due to the effects of rust the manufactures are not terribly concerned - they are not the ones spreading salt on the roads its not their fault. Even if they were concerned their is nothing they can do. If they would recommend using a substance on the lugnuts and only 1 wheel fell off instead of a 1000 they would have opened themselves up to a lawsuit. Your claims that the manufacturers recommendations are based on what is dangerous and what is not is based on assumptions and supposition.

Follow the manufacturers recommendations.

-jim

sounds good to me. I'm just a diy'er - was thinking of being a mechanic, but the computer stuff pays better and it's a lot nicer at -40 being at a desk job...

I never used to torque my wheels on either until I had my old (26 year old) Buick start to randomly lose wheel studs... and then the one time I didn't use a torque wrench on my Jimmy I had the wheel come loose... so I always torque them on because I'm obviously NOT capable of being close enough to 100 just by feel.

I usually have the wheels off once a year to do some other maintenance or check the brakes or something, so if the lugs are clean I don't worry about it and just put them on dry. I don't know if the nuts are different on newer cars, but they don't seem to rust like my old cars did.

Ray

90-100 pounds, seems to be the recommend torque pressure, I go for 90, getting them too tight might warp the rotors.

and if you are caught out in the hot sun with a flat tire with only a "L" lug nut(jack handle) wrench, it ain't fun to have to remove *seized* nuts.

that might be the time - anti-seize - comes in handy.

ray wrote in news:LeN8g.474$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe22.lga:

I have stuck to the recomended torque specs. testing on my own did not show enough difference to be that important. Never warped a rotor or any other problems associated with overtightening at factory specs. KB

only car I remember having that EVEr had lug snapping or stripping problems, was my dad's 1976 Dodge Aspen wagon

he got it with 7,300 miles in 1977, and the first time I rotated the tires, (probably 7,500 miles), one of the left front lug nuts stripped, and the lugnut "freewheeled" on the stud.

had to take a hammer and chisel to it to get the nut off.

then we had several studs break on the right side of the car.... usually when we were getting new tires, and usually at Firestone.

car was totalled in 1985, with 53,000 miles on it. front hub never had to come off, so left front stud was still stripped, and 4 nuts on that wheel.... and probably 5 or 6 of the right side studs had to be replaced over the life of the car.