Running a car on water via electrolysis

Clueless idiot. They produce .4 quad, _gross_, in ethanol. They produce

4.5 quad of oil. Looks like it is very predominantly oil.
Reply to
Dan Bloomquist
Loading thread data ...

Hydrogen powered ICE engines are used in the transport buses at Frankfort airport right now. The technology is in its infancy, but it works.

Fuel cells are fine too, but not the only way to use hydrogen.

Reply to
<HLS

Numbers are needed but will never be provided. It is so easy to say we can turn shit into energy. But if you invest $100 billion to get a quarter of a quad a year, it becomes bullshit.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

You will find that thermodynamically the optimum efficiency for electrolysis is about

90%, but in fact the efficiency seldom is as high as 40-50%. Some of the electrical energy is lost in heating of the electrolyte.

There needs to be a better way.

Reply to
<HLS

Where do they get the hydrogen?

Fuel cells are fine for the space shuttle. No regular stiff can ever afford them.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

It's the only current method that makes sense. What's the point of using a "fuel" that takes more energy to produce than it yields, and then pumping it into an ICE that gets what, maybe 25% efficiency? 30% on a good day? Might as well just burn gasoline, it's more efficient.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Yea. Don't burn coal to produce electricity to produce hydrogen that doesn't have a viable infrastructure. Just use CTL and the existing infrastructure.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

Do you mean Cantarell? Offshore Mexico?

Reply to
<HLS

I've seen this number repeated for the last day. Where does it come from? Coal currently runs 30%. Buy the time you get coal's heating value to the wheels of a car via electrolyses, you get < 5%.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

Yes.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

Old son, we don't OWN Saudi Arabia. We dont OWN Venezuela, nor Mexico, nor anything outside our continental shelf and mainland.

We lease, at the whims of the governments which are in power. We can be out in a second.

We can count on NOTHING but what we have in our hands. (and too often, that has turned out to be our peckers)

Reply to
<HLS

Maybe that is how the oil companies feel, but.........

Most of the oil used so far has come from the US, that is why there is a problem, the US supplied much of the world for a while.

Joe Fischer

Reply to
Joe Fischer

Brasil made it effective. Efficient is another matter.

Reply to
<HLS

Not quite true. Kristian Michelsens Institute had a contract to develop fuel cells, and I have personally seen the product. Small ( about a foot on each side), relatively inexpensive, and able to generage about 17 KWH. That would equate to roughly 20 horsepower ( dont flame me on decimal points, please), which is not a lot, but is enough for small cars. Remember what the old original VW used to produce?

There is no one answer. But it is my believe that as energy expenses begin to increase geometrically, we will have to do everything we can to stay in the game.

This bullshit about there being plenty of oil out there has to be rationalized. Yes, there is still a lot of oil and gas, but we own less and less of it.

Reply to
<HLS

Think outside the box, Nate. We can burn gasoline as long as we have it. We are now deficient in hydrocarbon energy production. Our cashews are in the hands of foreign governments. It is not a good situation.

Efficiency doesnt mean anything if you have to start walking to work. Inefficient energy processes then begin to take on importance.

Reply to
<HLS

Cantarell is in a decline. No doubt. They have trouble producing all they oil they could due to the very viscous nature of some of the oil. A lot of it looks like tar.

But the fact is that it will not last forever.

I have worked there a lot, and know a lot of the people with Pemex. What worries me, a little, is that in the coming years, if the situation does not improve for the little people, we may see a repeat of Hugo Chavez' politics. We desperately need to help make Mexico prosperous and friendly. We just cant go into every oil producing country in the world and try to save them, militarily, for 'democracy'.

Reply to
<HLS

There is something to be said for slave labor.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

There may be a reason to do that, in any enclosed space, hydrogen engines would be a good idea.

If hydrogen is available at the right price, it makes sense to use it, but what I meant about fuel cells is that the efficiency is very high, and exhaust heat can be used with greater safety than hydrocarbon fuels.

Joe Fischer

Reply to
Joe Fischer

I had owned a lot of VW's. So, what is the cost per kw for these things?

I agree. My concern is the result of demand destruction and the impact to the world's economies.

'How much' is greatly overstated when capacity/demand disparity is not addressed. Peak oil is about capacity/demand, not about potential.

Reply to
Dan Bloomquist

What, you don't like what you started ?

Reply to
Brent P

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.