SE and Natl

What kind of vehicle? What state are you in?

Ooops .. RAV4 .. Ohio ..

Metro Toyota near Cleveland.

if you try to specify a 2007 RAV 4, when you get to the trim selection you get the SE and Natl show up. The model number differ by one letter, eg 4430-S vs 4430-N.

Just curious really .. the price seems to be the same. It just seemed odd the dealer's internet guy wouldn't know.

Lots of knowledgeable people here (like yourself ;-) .. so I thought I might just ask.

I know a number of people who have bought cars at Metro and have been very satisfied.

People seem to like Sunnyside too, but not quite as much IMO.

There's also Brunswick Auto Mart. I have not heard good things about them. :-)

The 4 digit model number, e.g. 4430, is the U.S. model number. There is a different model number for each body style, trim, engine, and transmission type. The alpha character after the U.S. model number is called a phase code and denotes pricing level for that model. It used to be that intro pricing at the beginning of the model year was always "A", with the first price increase being "B" and so on. The letters S and N at the beginning of a model year mean that they are using a different coding system for the phase code.

The Se and Natl are probably an internal stock designation by the dealership and not part of Toyota's distribution system.

Ah .. ok. Thanks Ray!

Yes, I have heard that too, though my experience with them via the internet has not been impressive. Their guy just bombarded my mailbox with junkmail (6 messages in the first 24 hours) and then continued to send me irrelevant information about cars I was not interested in - I had made it very clear I was only looking at a RAV4, not pickup trucks etc.

I talked to them on the phone, and they seemed very nice.

Motorcars Toyota on Mayfield Road in Cleveland seems very responsive too, both on-line and by phone.

Yeah, I wasn't impressed, I called them today, and they were not very friendly or helpful. Told me that 2007 RAV4 hadn't hit the lots yet .. I guess they were only talking about their own.

I have been dealing mostly with Premier Toyota in Amherst (closest to Oberlin, where I am) and they have been quite nice so far. Though, today I was talking to the sales manager and he misrepresented the truth (I'd like to not say "lied" as I can't recall the exact words he used, but certainly he implied something false) which put a damper on my experience so far. This was about the documentation fee, he said it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging (or required to charge - I don't quite remember)

Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.

Do they really get away with this a lot? I mean it didn't take very long to find out. Still, what a pain to deal with.

eb

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HOLY SH*T ! (yeah, I know, I'm shouting, but I tend to do that when I become apoplectic!)

That caps it. I would never pay $250 for a dealer's clerk to write up a sales slip or two! Last time I had any dealings with a dealer, the doc fee was $45 as I recall.....and That's a ripoff. What other retail sales organization has the chutzpah to charge such a fee in the first place? I suppose however that if they waive the doc fee, they'll just add it on to another item or make sure in some way that they'll get the dough. Insufferable!

I wonder whether that's normal, or whether one salesman got carried away?

I forgot about them. :-) Yes, I've heard good things about them too.

A "documentation" fee seems to be pretty standard around here. It's just added dealer profit. :-(

Hey, at least they told you about it up front. Most dealers don't mention it until you're filling out the final paperwork.

This just goes to show how unfriendly Ohio is to consumers in general. Preparing documents to sell a car is simply a business expense. The dealer should just suck it up and then take it off their taxes.

Of course, it would probably only come to $10-20 per car, so I guess they're not interested in that. Instead, they see this as a chance to squeeze more money from the customer, and the state govt. thinks that is just a swell idea.

There are some dealers around here that won't even waive the doc fee. They just basically tell you to stuff it. I guess they figure some other sucker will buy the car if you don't.

Probably the worst in this area is Bob Serpentini. His name is so appropriate, because he's a real snake.

He lived in my town (he might still live there) and I met him once. What a jerk! :-)

SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.

See

- Toyotas in the Southeast aren't distributed directly by Toyota. They are distributed by a gang err...family owned distributor that operates out of Deerfield Beach, FL. Living in NC, near the Va line it is interesting to see the difference between dealers in Va and NC. In Virginia, Toyota are distributed by the National Distributor (Toyota owned). The Southeast dealers are all part of the same cabal, and you when you visit one of their web sites you can generally see all the Toyotas available in the Southeast. The SE Toyotas often have different option packages (some distributor installed) and different destination charges. It used to be you almost couldn't buy a Toyota in the SE without having to put up with fabric and paint sealants, since they were distributor applied options (and HUGE profit makers). Be glad you don't live in the SE if you are buying a Toyota. Ed

Ah .. ok, so I guess they sell (slightly) differently equipped models then. Thanks!

Well, my attitude will be that they can charge as much as they want for the doc fee, I'm just going to roll all of it into the final price (incl taxes/fees) and consider who can provide the best price. They can figure out how much to shave off their "required" $250 doc fee.

Doesn't sound nice .. you shouldn't give our his URL .. doesn't deserve that free promo.

Have you heard anything about Toyota of Bedford?

I think he just gets an inquiry, and dumps a bunch of pre-canned e-mail out. It would be much more effective to actually read the request first IMHO instead of spamming. Like I said, this did not impress me.

At this point I am going to look at them, Sunnyside, Metro and Premier locally.

ugh .. well, I am just going to roll it all into one final price, they can toss it in there if they like, it's just going to inflate their final offer to me.

Yes, seems extremely silly. But then again, the whole car buying experience is. I can't believe how much time I have spent reading/researching about all that is involved. I buy one car every 15 years or so, so it's not like I'm practiced in this. If I was getting one every 2 or 3 years, it might even be fun because I'd presumably know what I was doing .. :-|

The only 'fees' any buyer should pay are the frees require by the state and local government, related to the purchase of any vehicle. When ever I am asked to pay a fee for a dealership employee to do his job, I ask do you want me to pay the guy that washed the vehicle a well? Why would any buyer pay a dealership for something that is just one more cost of doing business? ;)

mike hunt

No, I haven't.

I'm not sure it could ever be fun. :-) It's more of a necessary evil.

It was interesting to see how excited people were over the no-haggling prices at Saturn dealers when they first introduced them. I don't know whether or not you actually get a fair deal, but you evidently get the same deal as everyone else, and it sure takes less time.

I thought about that, but it makes no sense. A dealer in Ohio is part of Toyota Motor Distributors Cincinnati Region and is not part of Southeast Toyota Distributors. Also, the internal codes for Southeast Toyota would be SET, while a code from Toyota Motor Distributors would be TMD..

I recently read that Saturn has done away with the policy now and it's just like any other place where you have to haggle. Maybe someone who knows can confirm or refute this ...

Yes, it would be nice if buying a car was much simpler and less time consuming.