Missed opportunity for Ford??

You mean this one m8 :)

Heh! Something like that :-)

Though is that mechanically any different from a bog standard Focus TDCI, i.e. lower gear ratios for better acceleration (though that would probably be more of a disadvantage in some respects though). What I was thinking is something along the lines of the 150bhp Golf GTi Diesel, where they took the

130bhp PD engine and uprated it especially for that model (AFAIK), rather than bolted on a few sporty looking bits.

Surely there's got to be a gap in the market for a genuine high performance Ford diesel range - STDCi ??

Peter

performance

There will be soon. A Mondeo ST220 type affair, only with a TDCi-150ish not a 3.0 V6.

Why bother when there are as you say VW, Skoda & Seat versions (the Ibiza Cupra is also a 1.9Tdi) is there still a sporty Tdi Pug? What I would still like to see is a 3 door fabia as I think a "sporty" hatch with 2 extra doors looks a bit odd.

I just dont get the new fashion of sporty diesels. Sure they're quick enough and cheapish to run but they lack everthing that to me 'makes' a sporty hatch.

For example:

• A sporty engine note. Even the best new diesels sound awful when cold and still sound agricultural when warmed - not exactly 'cool' at the traffic lights no matter how nice your alloys/seats are.

• Revvy engine which pulls all through the range. Again every diesel I've driven feels great until about 4,500rpm at which point it dies on it's arse.

....Soot. Not very cool IMO I understand there are additives you can get to reduce this, surely this eats into the perceived cheap running costs.

Surely driving one of these just labels you as someone who desparately wants a 'proper' hot hatch but is too cheap to fork out for the fuel to run one?

Maybe I'm odd. Most probably, they seem to sell by the bucketload!

A

PS: How quick are these modern diesels in the real world? 0-100? 1/4 mile? Only every taken them on test drives you see...

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Damn, you beat me to it. Yep, Skoda fabia vRS (Quicker round Angelsey track than a Mini Cooper) and Seat Ibiza Cupra version, with the Polo pd130 waiting in the wings.

People who I have spoken to, with the Fabia vRS means they can go hunting much bigger cars, and still come away smiling, and the fuel consumption is in the 40's after a real good thrashing, Much better when you take it easy and just commute/cruise along.

You are quite right, I told the Ford marketing guys this soon after the PD150 Golf came out, but it fell on partially deaf ears. Yes we do have the TDCI Sport, - a dieselised version of the ST170- though I am unclear whether the diesel version actually has the wider track and the 300mm brakes that the petrol car has- anyone got one?

Anyways if Ford would bolt the 130 2 litre duratec engine into the Focus (it will fit) with the 6 speed ST box then we'd have a cracker and could fully mop the floor with the golf! Instead we have to put up with the lame

1.8 re-hashed endura de.- which are about fully stretched with 115brake btw.

Tim..

Your local Car Audio place will be able to do it. Mine charges £12 - take a look in your Yellow Pages :)

They're as quick as an equivalently powered petrol car, they're more economical, and nicer to drive. If there were a 200bhp Diesel car available for reasonable money, I'd swap my TI in a flash !

Er, I think you need to sort your priorities out !

No, that's the point where you change gear :) Diesels have MUCH more pull through their (lower) range, than their petrol counterparts, and in-gear times are usually better too. Remember all modern Diesels are Turbocharged.

See the above comment about priorities :)

Same as their petrol counterparts. 150bhp of Diesel power gives pretty much the same performance as 150bhp of Petrol power, obviously :) Golf listed below :

1.9 GT TDI 150bhp 134mph, 0-60 in 8.3 2.3 V5 150bhp, 134mph, 0-60 in 8.5

Why not stick it into the Fiesta or Ka, and have a sporty warm hatch in the same size category as the Fabia/Ibiza/Polo.

You tell me!?!?

Ford have been messing about for longer than they should with the Fester ST170 which should be on sale now, but isnt cos someone messed up with the CAD computer and they didnt discover the 6 speed box wouldnt fit the planned track width until they'd built a prototype! So a Diesel sporty Fester- wait until next year at the earliest! :(

Tim..

You would really think they would have the hang of CAD machines by now wouldn't you. A Diesel SportKa with the track pushed out by bigger bubble arches might be easier.

Surely a better comparison would be with the 150bhp 1.8T engine - turbocharged compared to turbocharged.

Though the figures would probably be broadly similar.

Peter

Erm... I don't think it is, the you're confusing the TDI engine with the TDCi engine. The TDCi is a completely new design (joint venture with PSA) and pretty good from what I've heard, and the 1.8 litre version had 115bhp, so I'm sure it's that one.

AFAIK the furthest the Endura-DI went to was 90bhp. To be fair, it was a fairly reliable hardy engine, and reasonably economical. My Fiesta one had

135k on it and always started first time (ok, so the oil cooler developed some sort of crack, causing gunge to bung up the engine, and I chose to sell it for spares/repair rather than fix it), and was pretty economical (general driving returned aroun 53mpg, and a long gentle run at 60mph would top 60mpg). Ok, so the Endura-DI isn't as good as Pug/Cit engines of a similar age (obviously the HDIs are better, but I'd guess the older TDs probably outdo it as well) but it's not a bad bit of kit and fairly cheap as well.

Peter

Cool, might pop in. Only thing is, that I've tried entering various codes (there's a 5-digit code written in pen on a sticker on it, so I tried the first four and last four digits of that, plus the last 4 digits of the serial number) and basically I'm locked out of the "enter code" mode - it now just displays "10". Will they still be able to sort it.

A bit irrelevant as I'm selling it very soon now anyway!

Peter

Err no, well sorta. The TDDI as first used in the Focus was fords stab at DI-ing the old endura DE engine (as per your Fester van) which to be honest was quite poor. The 2litre duratec DI (115) engine in the new mondeo was also designed in house by ford, and although slightly better was still poor. Ford then admitted defeat and sent the 2litre unit to PSA for development. PSA redesigned the combustion chamber, and added their own Siemens common rail system to make it into the CI, and sent it back to Ford.

Ford then had a good look at the 2litre unit, then took the 1.8 Endura DE block and the TDDI head basically copied what PSA had done as far as head work, and then added Bosch's common rail technology to it. Result is the 115 (and laterly the 100) engines.

The block is almost exactly the same as it always was and dates back to the original 1.6 unit. (they've only added a duplex chain and oil proof cover to drive the fuel pump instead of rubber belt.)

Its still an 8 valve head and non cross flow design and rather dated. Its also *all* iron contruction as was the original 1.6.

PSA are using an all alloy engine now with their 3rd gen HDI's in 1.4, and

1.6 forms.- both of which are usuing 16valve heads too.

Tim..

What's nice about driving a car that sounds like a tractor at idle? What's nice about leaving a trail of soot behind you when driving with 'enthusiasm'? What's nice about having to change gear at 4,500rpm? Agreed a derv with loads of low down push is probably more relaxing to drive, but whoever said sporty cars had to be relaxing to drive ?!? They're not even stealthy any more due to all the stick on tat.

My priorities may be different but it doesn't change most peoples perception of the word 'sporty' - I have no problem with quick diesels, but 'sporty' they are not and I really wish they'd stop labelling them as such.

A

Wouldn't really make any difference. 150bhp is 150bhp - unless one of the pair was stupidly heavy, or had loonatic power curves or something, then performance would be almost the same.

1.8 T GTi 150bhp, 134mph, 0-60 in 8.2

Yep :)

If your car sounds like a tractor when you're inside it, then it's broken ! I don't give a crap what's going on outside. Anyhow, I'm talking about performance Diesels here. 200+bhp Derv lumps, certainly don't sound like a tractor at idle !!!!

If your car covers you in soot when you're inside it, then it's broken ! I don't give a crap what's going on outside.

Everything. You make meaningful power through most of that range - 1500rpm to 4000rpm for example. That's the same reason Turbo Petrol cars are such a nice drive - wide powerband is a good thing !

You still only have 5 (or 6) gears to go through before you hit top speed. It's no different to a petrol car.

Precisely.

Sporty cars ? The only properly sporty diesel I can think of, is the 180bhp Seat Leon Cupra - only available on the continent though.

How do you know ? The only quick Diesel in circulation right now, is BMW's

3.0 lump. Once Pug's 2.7 becomes available, and Audi's new one (3.0 I think), then you'll have something to compare it to. Mercedes have one on the way too - or is it already here ?

What are you referring to here ? Underpowered shopping carts like the 150bhp Golf, clearly aren't "sporty" whether they're Diesel or Petrol. You need a heap more power before you start to get meaningful performance from a lardy modern car.