Toyota to use new hybrid system in 2008, report says

I cited 3, one from 2005.

So how long have you been working for an oil company? Or you on the Saudi payroll? Are you just another Chicken Little?

Ed

I cited history and one from a current oil company working to get oil from shale.

Yeah, oil company execs have desperately want to post on meaningless message boards like this one to convince illiterates like you.

You don't know what you're talking about. I'll give you a hint. You have to put alot of energy into shale to heat it to 450 celsius. How much energy do you get out? About 1/3 of the energy per ton that's in coal. And you don't have to heat the coal to get it out. Get it now? It's like a very, very poor source of coal.

It's "just out of reach" of harvesting because it uses cheap energy to harvest it. As soon as energy prices go up, the price of mining it goes up too.

I like to hear from someone with a first hand experience with the fuel cells hybrid from Toyota

If you want information on the latest advances in fuel cells, do a search of GM and Air Products. They are leaders in the field. GM is actually selling fuel cells that produce electricity for industry and buildings using NG. Air Products is the worlds leading producer of the hydrogen, to power fuel cell vehicles. The problem for the mediate future of fuel cell vehicles in the cost of producing hydrogen powered cells in clear rooms and the cost of producing and supplying hydrogen at anywhere even near the cost of currently available fuels. The current cost of a hydrogen fuel cell is several thousand dollars and an automobile would require 20 or more of them. I had the privilege last year of driving a hydrogen fuel cell Toyota van at Air Products headquarters in Allentown PA. It takes 20 minutes to fill the tank and costs more than an average A.P. worker earns in a week. ;)

mike hunt

Things are changing and fast

It does not take much checking to see that the price of fuel cells is going down rapidly and that the price of the fuel is also going down quite fast

The number of filling stations is also on the increase and in the area where I live this will not be a problem at all - no problem finding a filling station and the price is also low

Toyota Fuel cells are definitely going to be in my next car

Two further data points:

1) IIRC, Toshiba revealed tiny proof-of-concept fuel cells some time ago. These run on methanol and air and have been packaged to replace conventional batteries in portable equipment. It is not hard to imagine them being scaled up -- though it is always possible there could be problems (heat, waste gases, whatever).

2) Not far from where I live, one of the UK's major sugar-beet- processing factories has begun to add experimental fermentation plant to use up waste beet bits (and sub-standard whole beets). The sugar should produce a large amount of alcohol; the surplus solid matter should be burnable for other purposes, once dried.

Now combine those two ideas. Replicate world-wide.