considering type 4 (2.0) engine in a 71 ghia withOUT upright conversion <long>

If you don't want to invest in the good stuff for a T4, then I suspect you won't like maintaining one, either. So why even get into it?

I'm certainly not an expert. But based upon what you've written.

1. If you can't find photos of 'still pancaked t4's into t1 car' but can find upright converted - That should tell you something in and of itself
2. Think about it. Why wouldn't T4 parts be more expensive that T1 parts. There certainly were more T1's produced. You can check the web for sellers and should be able compare prices quite easily. DB

If you're gonna take a different route from the tried and true, you're gonna spend more money and frustration... So why not put a physically smaller engine in with scads more torque and hp and so smoothe you have to let the clutch out to tell if it's running? You'll have enough extra room to put in the needed radiator... Subaru 2.2.

If I was going to build another T4 bus, I'd probably convert to an upright fan shroud simply because I never got adequate cooling with the stock pancake system. The parts are higher $$ for T4 - a properly done overhaul could easily cost you twice what a T1 motor would. The plus side is the bottom ends are almost indestructible, especially in a light car. You'll have "X" $$ in it anyway - why even do it if you aren't going to go for maximum benefit? Put a totally stock T4 in vs a "totally stock T1" of same displacement (if there was such a beast) and you'd have the same output, so why do it? -BH

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I just bought a 1.8 Type IV which I plan to install in my Speedster replicar. I suspect it could take the engine remaining pancake since it has the extra 6" or so that are needed. Suspect you could hack out the back of your Ghia to accommodate. The Type IV starts at 1.7L and 80HP (1.8 is 76 HP) -- it can easily produce 120 plus HP. A quality P&C kit is $350 vic maybe $250 for a T1. The lower end, case and heads are indistructible. If you are looking to go low but -- why not stick with the fuel injection too? The D-Jetronic was dependible and frugal --- you just can't modify the engine greatly. I too got sticker shock when I priced out the TIV conversion - shroud, alternator, exhaust, cam, P&C, carbs and rebuild --- suspect it would be $2400 (plus the core engine) -- but I'd have a 120 HP engine good for 90k miles. Parts are more cuz there just weren't that many made. Go to Google and do a search on VW Type IV -- there are good 1/2 dozen sites worth looking at.

Cali's new site --- although old seemed to have more content

The don't fit in the same hole, they're too deep. Flywheel to pully, the T4 is already about two inches deeper itself. Then add the pancake shroud and fan, and what do you have? Maybe 11 inches extra depth. Got 11 inches to cut out of your engine bay?

I wrote the book on T-4 Upright conversions. Two suggestions go to my site

and then go to my favorite links at the site. Everything you want to know is there. BTY As Busahaulic said, the Upright is the way to go and the stock T-4 config will not fit with out major body work. My manual explains how to do it cheap, with T-1 and T-4 parts. $250 if you have to buy the stuff and nothing if you make it your self. BTY at the site go to photos and there is a redghia with a T-4. T-4's are not off the line drag engines, they are high speed monsters, that go 200k in a Ghia. Ghia's are lighter then 914's and most 914's go between

150k and 200k.

Any questions just ask.

New email address snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net

Joe Cali - Next Generation.

HMMMMM INTERESTING PROBLEM , I SUGGEST YOU FIND YERSELF A TRUSTWORTHY AND COMPETENT MECHANIC, IF THAT DOESNT WORK, I SUGGEST YOU INSURE THE CAR FOR TWICE ITS REAL VALUE AND ARRANGE FOR A COMPETENT AND TRUSTWORTHY CAR THIEF TO ARRANGE THE THEFT OF YOUR VEHICLE AND THE SUBSEQUENT ARSON OF SAME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME SIR.

There is no "lowbuck" road with the T4.

Sounds to me that you would be much happier if you spent the money on a T1, you would get more power and it would sit right in there. You save a LOT of work, and quite a bit of weight. Just go T1 and save money until you can do the T4 right.

Jan

"Wolfgang" thanks especially for this link, one I hadn't seen, and a _very_ well done informative site indeed:

so, guys, a related question:

IF I was to do an upright conversion, along with the related engine tin adaptions (more or less as outlined @ site above), I'm guessing I'd _then_ be able to remove my engine 'in the conventional type1 manner' with my floor jack: unhook, lower back and down some, back and down some, _without_ having to 'cut/alter/adapt' my rear ghia body sheet metal (engine compartment rear floor area). that correct?

thanks to all/much appreciated :-)

I lost this thread, so forgive if this link has already been posted:

This is the place that makes the TDM today.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:21:42 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@xyzzy.stafford.net (jjs) ran around screaming and yelling:

you may get some hatemail from Jake now John....hehe...its "DTM"(down the middle) JT

Yeah, I'm no good at TLAs. Typo. BFD. (I'm on the list for the T1 DTM. Or is that TDM?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:46:46 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@xyzzy.stafford.net (jjs) ran around screaming and yelling:

JT