Hi there
My friend and I have checked out a '90 940, with automatic transmission. On the base of the gear lever, it says: "P R N D 3 2 1". I have a 240 with the AW 70 3-speed + O/D, and it says "P R N D 2 1" and has the O/D button on the stick.
Doesn't this 940 have a ZF-transmission since it lacks the O/D button, and has a "3"? As far as I know, the ZF (which I suspect it to be) isn't nearly as reliable as the AW (Aisin Warner).
This is an AW tranny. The OD button is located on the front side of the gearshift lever. BD
This 940 has indeed got a ZF4HP22 gearbox. This box is certainly one of the finest gearboxes made and has absolutely no problems whatsoever unless you are an American. The Americans cannot fathom the logic behind the design which leaves the internal pump disconnected in Park. So when revving the engine with car stationary, the gearbox should ALWAYS be in Neutral, never in Park. Provided you stick to the recommended ATF change intervals (30,000 miles) there will not be a problem with this excellent piece of German engineering. I also have a high opinion of the ZF4HP24 fitted to 400 series cars and the Three-speed ZF fitted to one of my Lancia HPEs.
Cheers, Peter.
Um, revving a car with a ZF4HP22 tranny in park is just as bad as doing the same in neutral.
There are indeed people who love them, and people who loathe them. In fact, it seems like many.. most? Saab 9000 owners don't find the ZF boxes all that great. I believe that there are more issues than just the revving it out of gear lack of lubrication. Who knows.
You can bag on Americans all you want to, but surely that doesn't make you right. For what it's worth, the weakness was exposed due to smog testing, not driving habits.
Indeed, I think the AW box is a terrific piece of engineering. It's extremely durable, and on top of that it shifts fantastically.
I suppose we should all be greatful it's not a British design. :)
- alex
'85 244 Turbo '84 245 Turbo
"Michael Cerkowski That's my understanding of it as well. A dealer should know for sure. If
OK - I'm a bit puzzled here.
"BD" believes it's an AW. Peter Milnes believes it's a ZF, that shouldn't be revved in "P". Alex Zepeda believes revving is just plain bad with a ZF. And you seem to have the same doubts as I.....
Well, guys. Can I tell one from the other by checking out anything on the car - oil dipstick?
The ride is very smooth and shifts are very nice. If it's a ZF, it seems in excellent condition, and the car has done 160.000 mls/250.000 km's. Is smooth shifting all it takes to buy a ZF and not worrying afterwards?
Alex is right. Revving the engine with the shifter in neutral will kill the ZF transmission just as surely as revving it in park. And now if you get a replacement box from Volvo (or BMW for that matter) they've been modified and don't suffer from this problem. Although I've driven
740s with both AW and ZF boxes, and judging only on function the ZFs are superior. And measured against any other standard the ZF is still very reliable, it's just that the AW is even better.
"Mike F"
Alright. Thanks, Mike. Say, that the prevous owner mistreated the ZF by revving, how does it act then? Harsh shifting? It seems that there is no way at all to test the engine (i.e. a tune up) by revving it, is that correct?
If someone could share the ZF's actual name or part#, I would surely appreciate it. Makes it easier to locate a possible exchange unit - if needed (hope not!).
Sorry to be a wet blanket Mike, but it is OK to rev a ZF gearbox in Neutral. The internal pump is connected in this setting and no problems will be caused. It is the same for the three-speed ZF gearbox as fitted to one of my Lancias. Volvo issued a notice to all dealers about this stating that they were not to rev the engine with the gearbox in Park. I have revved my engine in Neutral many times particularly for emissions test purposes. Max revs on my car is 5,400 rpm (diesel). The gearbox has never given trouble when in over 180,000 miles of driving.
Vestman, if you had read my previous post you would know the type number. For you I will repeat, it is ZF4HP22. ZF part no. is 1 043 010 151, Volvo part number is 1 208 301 for B230F and ZF no. 1 043 010 153 or 1 043 010 106 Volvo no. 1 208 365 or 1 208 390 for D24T USA/Canada. Only a few transmissions have the 1 208 390 number and some have no Volvo part number. My copy of Green Book does not give details for B230FT, it is a bit early for that (Nov. 1985 copy).
Cheers, Peter.
: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:51 +0000 (UTC), Peter Milnes wrote: : >
: > >This 940 has indeed got a ZF4HP22 gearbox. This box is certainly one of the : > >finest gearboxes made and has absolutely no problems whatsoever unless you are : > >an American. The Americans cannot fathom the logic behind the design which : > >leaves the internal pump disconnected in Park. So when revving the engine with : > >car stationary, the gearbox should ALWAYS be in Neutral, never in Park. Provided : > >you stick to the recommended ATF change intervals (30,000 miles) there will not : > >be a problem with this excellent piece of German engineering. I also have a high : > >opinion of the ZF4HP24 fitted to 400 series cars and the Three-speed ZF fitted : > >to one of my Lancia HPEs. : >
: > Um, revving a car with a ZF4HP22 tranny in park is just as bad as doing : > the same in neutral. : >
: > There are indeed people who love them, and people who loathe them. In : > fact, it seems like many.. most? Saab 9000 owners don't find the ZF boxes : > all that great. I believe that there are more issues than just the : > revving it out of gear lack of lubrication. Who knows. : >
: > You can bag on Americans all you want to, but surely that doesn't make you : > right. For what it's worth, the weakness was exposed due to smog testing, : > not driving habits. : >
: > Indeed, I think the AW box is a terrific piece of engineering. It's : > extremely durable, and on top of that it shifts fantastically. : >
: > I suppose we should all be greatful it's not a British design. :) : >
: > - alex : >
: > '85 244 Turbo : > '84 245 Turbo : : Alex is right. Revving the engine with the shifter in neutral will kill : the ZF transmission just as surely as revving it in park. And now if : you get a replacement box from Volvo (or BMW for that matter) they've : been modified and don't suffer from this problem. Although I've driven : 740s with both AW and ZF boxes, and judging only on function the ZFs are : superior. And measured against any other standard the ZF is still very : reliable, it's just that the AW is even better. : : -- : Mike F. : Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. : : Change cant to ca and remove parentheses to email me directly.
"Peter Milnes"
OK, I'll wait and see which one of you wins this discussion ;o)
Oops, didn't notice all the details. I've saved your data in case my friend buys the car.
Thnx, Peter.
Then for the actual test: "After the engine reaches normal operating temperature, place the transmission into park and switch the ignition off for 30 seconds. Restart engine. After the engine is started to not move the gear selector through the forward or reverse gears before of during the test sequence. DO NOT EXCEED 2000 RPM. First stage: High Idle 1850 (+/- 150rpm) for 30 seconds Second stage: Idle RPM (see standards for max.) for 30 seconds.
Notice there's no distinction between park and neutral. If you or anybody else would like a PDF of this bulletin, send me an email.
The best use for a ZF trans is as a boat anchor.
I am sorry if I confused you about emissions checks, I was using the data for diesel engine emissions testing which is different from petrol engines. Diesel testing requires six run-ups to max rpm (set at 5400 rpm on fuel pump) holding max for three seconds, then allowing rpm to drop to idle. The average of these runs should be less than 3% for diesel and less than 3.5% for turbodiesel. These values are for UK MOT test.
Cheers, Peter.
: > OK, I'll wait and see which one of you wins this discussion ;o) : >
: > -- : > Keep rollin' : > Lars Vestman, Denmark. : > (My '85 Volvo 245:
Failure from revving is nearly instant from what I've heard.
And yes, revving it in neutral will cause problems.
Here's a better description of the problem:
Really, unless you absolutely had to have a ZF transmission, you might as well just replace it with an AW when the ZF fails.
- alex
Regardless of all this, the ZF trannies can easily be killed, whether by ignorance or misuse or otherwise, while the AW's are virtually indestructible, I've driven both and didn't notice much difference and therefore if I was forced to have an automatic then the AW would be an obvious choice. That said, I hate driving either one, fortunatly it's fairly easy to convert to an M46.
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