GTI Mark V.. Are the dealers extorting the prices?

I'm considering a VW GTI Mark V and was wondering if the dealers are playing the extortion game on the price?
I'm also considering a Mustang and at least with the GT, the Ford dealers
are asking sticker price +....
What's the deal with the GTI Mark V?
Is this a high demand car or are people waiting or buying rice burners? Where I live I don't see many GTI's but lots of rice and tons of Mustangs.
I've been to 2 dealerships just looking and the place seems dead. I also see the same cars sitting on the lot so I have to assume they are not jumping out of the dealers hands.
FWIW I owned the original 1983/84 GTI and loved it. I never should have sold it :(
Also, I never pay anything but invoice price (not list) and below invoice if there is an incentive running.
I'm not sure how VW operates as far as negotiation etc is concerned, but with Ford/GM DMC I pull the Edmunds numbers, take the invoice and subtract the incentives (if any) and then take a little more off and start bargaining from there. Most USA cars have approximately a $700/800 dealer hold back profit even if the car goes for invoice.
Is that how the VS dealers operate?
Are these cars high profit margin cars?
I do own a 2003 Jetta, but it was a dealer demo with 6k on it and priced very fairly so there was no negotiation.
TIA
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quimby wrote:

What country are you in?
TIA
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:28:41 +1000, sarahs choice wrote:

USA East coast, if it matters.
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quimby wrote:

I think it does. This newsgroup is read around the world so if you're seeking advice and recommendations its probably a good idea to at least let people know what marketplace you're talking about.
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:48:36 +1000, sarahs choice wrote:

I meant "East coast" if it matters. IOW if it matters where I am in USA.
I agree with you, the location does make a big difference.
Sorry for the confusion!
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Don't get caught up in the invoice game like the dealers would like you to.
Decide exactly what car you want and exactly what options.
Get prices from dealers. Tell them you will not share their price with other dealers or customers. Be honest and tell them you are shopping around to other dealers in the same manner.
If a dealer refuses to give a cash price on this basis, leave. Most likely means they know they couldn't be competitive on price.
If a dealer asks you what is the lowest price you have gotten and tells you he will beat it, tell him all prices you receive are confidential between you and the dealer.
Give yourself a month or so, price shop, and then decide. At that point you can also consider location of dealer, service reputation, etc.
You will save a lot of money this way over those who get taken in playing the game the way the salesman want you to.
Invoice prices are phony and mean nothing.
Learned this from a former top car salesman.
TL

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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:29:18 +0000, Tom Levigne wrote:

Absolutely. The dealer can sell you the car at $1.00 over invoice price and still make money depending upon holdback (usually around $700.00 or so) and factory incentives to the dealerships, which vary.

Yep. Edmunds is good for this.

That is exactly what I do.

As long as you let them know up front you are serious and not wasting their time. Don't show up on a Saturday afternoon with kids in tow and expect to be taken seriously.

NEVER reveal your hand!! You never know how low any particular dealer will go and you may have shot yourself in the foot by offering a higher price.

Yep. The internet, friends and family are a good resource. Scope the dealer out and if they are aggressive and pesty, leave.
IOW : What will it take for you to buy this car today? etc....
That's known as the hard sell.
NEVER answer open ended questions like that because you give away your hand. Be aloof, but let them know you are serious.

Obviously, because in January the car is going for invoice and in March they are offering $2000 cash incentive on the same car.
It's obvious there is a LOT of room built in below the dealer invoice price.

Read a book called "How Not To Get Taken Every Time" The author is a former top car salesman.
Here is what I do:
I basically do what you suggest, scoping out the options and arriving at my bottom line price OUT THE DOOR INCLUDING TAX etc..... This is usually Invoice - incentives - $2000 or so depending on the car.
That is my low ball offer.
Then I research the dealers to see what they have in stock and I watch for about a month or so to see what cars are not moving.
I try and find one as close to my optioned car as I can.
Then I get a bank check cut made out to me in the amount of my low ball offer and hit the dealers.
I play with them a while to see how low they will go, because you never know when they might actually go lower than my low ball offer.
I also shop at the end of the month, late in the day and try an pick a younger salesman who most likely has a family to feed as opposed to a retired person working to keep busy.
When I feel the negotiation has reached rock bottom I say something like:
"Look, I want to buy a car, you want to sell one and the dealership wants to move inventory"
I will give you "whatever my lowball offer is" right now for that car. At which point I wave the check around.......
One of two things will happen.
He will say, you're nuts I can't sell the car for that low a price at which point you thank him and start to walk out. He will come running after you. At this point stay firm and don't accept any counter offers, but listen politely. He will more than likely get another person from the dealership to tag team you (this person is called the closer BTW). Stay firm and get up and start to walk out again.
Remember, YOU CAN ALWAYS COME BACK TOMORROW and accept their offer.
The second thing that might happen is he says, ok and you have a car at a very good price.
Remember have patience and don't get emotionally involved in the sale.
Also, this will not work on cars that are currently hot sellers like Pontiac Solstice for example.
This is why I asked if the GTI is a hot seller. I don't see them anywhere around here.
Advice?
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Nope. Don't make an offer at any time. Get prices from them. Usually takes a manager level person to provide this. Choose the price you will pay only AFTER you have visited all dealerships.
Don't "play with them". Be courteous, professional and honest. Convince them you are straight with them and they will usually respond accordingly.
Tell them you plan to make one visit to get prices and will only go back only to the location you choose to buy the car from.
Thank each dealer that you receive prices from. They all want to sell you the car, but some have higher overheads, minimum profit margins, etc
TL

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On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 00:43:29 +0000, Tom Levigne wrote:

That's what I said.
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I said that as well.
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Agreed.
I'm always courteous, but when the high pressure routine starts I politely get up and leave and that dealership goes off the list.
Most people have no clue how a typical dealership works. While it may look like chaos, it is really a well oiled machine designed to make you, the consumer, part with as much money as they can get from you.
The guy walking around outside is the *greeter*. His job is to size you up and report back to the salesmen what he thinks you are up to. IOW, kids, wife= talk safety. Drive up in a late model, nice car...maybe a trade in... etc.... Tell this guy as little as possible.
Then there is the salesman...That one is self explanatory.
There is also the *closer* who is the guy the salesman calls when he is having trouble closing the deal. The two of them will play good cop / bad cop with you.
Then you have the FI guy which is finance and insurance.
And so forth...

Anyone walking into a dealership without doing a lot of research is going to get fleeced.
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And lots of "fleecies" don't even know they were fleeced... Who are we to deny their right to feel like happy customers?
Like voters, car buyers fall into 2 groups: some make the effort to educate themselves and others just go on emotions.
TL

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You don't see any around here because they are VWs. And they just came out. They don't flood the market. The market is artificially limited, because there are no cars. Also the GTI MK 5 is the first GTI that has the possibility of being as good as the MK1/MK2 GTI. The 3 and 4 were a wash. VW doesn't deal either. Unless VW Corporate decides too. Which I have only seen once. Good Luck.

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quimby wrote:

Well, according to Edmunds, a GTI 4-door w/DSG and Package 2 (leather, Sirius, sunroof, and dual-zone Climatronic) stickers for $27465, and the "True Market Value" (allegedly a survey-derived indicator of what people are actually paying) is $26914. So no extortion, but not a fantastic deal either. (Compared to MSRP, that is - I'd pay it to get that car!)
-- Mike Smith
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Mike Smith wrote:

That's in western Suffolk County NY, BTW - which only affected the market price by $52.
-- Mike Smith
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