warranty/VW Customer Care

Hi all,

Our '02 Jetta Wagon has had a clutch failure - specifically, the clutch won't disengage completely. My first guess was clutch master/slave cylinder, but my dealer says they check out fine and that there are no leaks. They say that it's a mechanical failure in the clutch mechanism (throwout bearing, pressure plate, etc.).

The car has 47,xxx miles on it. The '02 came with a 50,000 mile "bumper to bumper" warranty. The dealer says that VW considers a clutch a wear item and that it is not covered under warranty. I can understand a worn out clutch falling under the "wear item" heading, but not a mechanical failure. IOW, the clutch is "broken" and not "worn."

VW Customer Care is closed today, but I'll be calling them on Monday morning. Anyone have any tips for dealing with them on this?

The dealer wants $85 now for the diagnosis, and $550 to take it apart and see what's going on. The cost for the clutch kit from VW is $930! In speaking with the service writer at the dealer, he says that there is some likelyhood that VW might be willing to help out some (maybe warranty the parts, but not the labor), but that they will insist on having the dealer take it apart first. $550 is a bunch of money to risk on a "maybe" when I could just replace the clutch myself for whatever the cost of an aftermarket clutch is.

Any thoughts?

thanks, Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison
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I would take a close look at that bumper to bumper warranty. Exactly what does it say? Generally things like clutches and brakes are considered wear and they are not included.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

I would, but it's in the car, which is at the dealer 50 miles away.

I understand that a worn clutch would not be covered. This is not a worn clutch. This is a broken part in a car with less than 50k that's been driven by my wife to haul a kid around. It hasn't seen any hard use at all.

I also failed to mention that I took it to the dealer with ~15k on it because of a throwout bearing noise. The dealer, of course, couldn't hear anything out of the ordinary. I had forgotten about that 'til now, I'll have to point it out to the service advisor and/or VW Customer Care.

But you're right, and I'm sure VW won't do a thing about it.

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

May be under warranty, but the dealer is correct in that the trans must be removed first to check the clutch. I just did one last week on a Jetta with

30,000+ miles and VW paid for the clutch. If the clutch disc friction material shows "NO" abnormal wear and the failure was the clutch plate or other related part, then VW may very well pay for the repair. The one I had the clutch pressure plate was cracked. VW Customer Care, will not do anything unless the cars apart and the cause is determined!

Reply to
Lost In Space/Woodchuck

Clutch at less than 50K miles? I'd get a second opinion, preferably from an independent mechanic (you do have one, don't you?). Then you can approach your local dealer and VWOA if it is a serious failure.

The slave cylinder went in my 95 GLX at 26K miles. Not an uncommon problem. Intermittent, never leaked fluid, seems to have leaked as to let air in when it sat overnight. Stealer said "Needs a new clutch. $1200. Out of warranty." I said: "Clutches don't fail at that low a mileage. Don't do any work, I'm coming to get the car." 15 minutes later I get a call back "It's just the slave cylinder, we will cover under warranty."

At any rate, even if it is the clutch, you may want to go afterrmarket as an upgrade, for what the labor will cost to replace.

With VWOA, there are a few buzzwords that might help:

  1. "Original owner"
  2. "Properly maintained"
  3. "Maintained per VW's schedule"
  4. "Maintained by dealer"
  5. "This is my [second, third, fourth] VW"

Good luck, let us know how it gets resolved

Reply to
C_S

Say no more. I was going to ask if you had any stupid people drive this car, but now I won't. Women are really rough on clutches, say no more.

I think you should fail to mention that your wife drive this car.

They have had lots of experience with people that just don't know how to drive a manual transmission. :-)

Reply to
Peter Parker

Yea, just don't mention the four letter word, "Wife"... :)

Reply to
Peter Parker

So you're calling my wife stupid?

I'm not even going to bother saying what I should say, but I will say that my wife can properly drive a manual transmission.

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

Good to hear that they paid in this case.

My concern is that I'm out $550 in labor plus the cost of a clutch if VW decides not to pay for mine. I can do it myself for the cost of the clutch and a few hours of cussing practice.

The dealer insists that they have properly diagnosed it as not being a master or slave cylinder... does VW have any specific diagnostic to prove this, or am I hanging on a tech's (hopefully) educated guess here?

thanks, Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

My thoughts/concerns exactly. I questioned how the dealer was able to determine that it was not a master/slave cylinder issue and was told that they have equipment to test whether the system is creating and holding pressure. I've never seen such a tool, but it seems like it would be a simple setup, so I'm not suprised to hear that it exists. I'm hoping Woodchuck replies to my question on that, as I'd like to hear from a VW tech whether such a tool and diagnostic protocol exists...

No question about that! $930 for a clutch kit... that's just funny.

I'm just not sure if I'm willing to take the $550 risk as to whether VW will pick up the cost or not.

All true, though I'm ready to add "last" to statement #5. ;-)

Will do, thanks.

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

Do you know the web site/group

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You might want to post the details of your problem on that site, lots of helpful people there, someone might have some ideas.

Reply to
C_S

I'll look in my Bentley. A more detailed description of the problem might help. What, exactly, do you mean that the clutch will not disengage completely? Pedal goes to the floor but you cannot shift? Any strange pedal feel? Is the problem intermittent? If so, when does it happen?

Seriously, if you do not have an independent mechanic for the car, you need to find one soon. I'm on my third VW. I've found there are some really great independent VW mechanics. No bad ones that I know of, I guess you gotta love the brand to specialize and you also have to be good to stay in business. But the dealer service varies widely. Even if you can do mosts tasks yourself, you will eventually need a good mechanic for the car. A good one will save you both time and money. And its best to find one before you really need him or her.

#5 worked best for me when the heater core failed in my 95 after 10 years/100K miles (failed at 100,003 miles, to be exact--funny). VWOA covered all parts and labor--$1500. But the best part of the story was that I first took it to my indy mechanic for repair. He was the one who told me to try to get VWOA to cover (even though he could have just fixed it and charged me for it). "There was a recall for this on the 94's, your build date is November 94, maybe they will cover."

Reply to
C_S

Isn't there any good mechanics in your area that are NOT VW dealership employees? VW charges an arm and a leg for everything they do.

Reply to
Papa

It acts exactly like a cable-clutch system would if the cable were stretched. You have to force it into gear and basically shift as if the clutch cable wasn't working. We've all learned how to shift without the clutch in our old ratty VWs, right?

It happened Tuesday, but miraculously went away after just a couple of minutes. It popped back up on Friday and there has been no change. The dealer claims to have attempted to bleed the system and tested the pressure. I'll do that myself before they go any further.

My first thought, since it 'came and went' once was that it was hydraulic. Now that there has been no change after driving it 50 miles to the dealer and them doing their thing, I'm thinking it may be mechanical - pressure plate or throwout bearing I'd guess.

One thing that keeps me awake at night... The first time it happened, I was pulling out of a parking lot with a fairly steep incline on the exit. When I pulled over to tinker with it I was on flat ground. I pumped the clutch pedal a bunch of times during that time and the problem went away. The next time it happened, I had parked in my side driveway which is also steep (I don't usually park on the steep portion) and the car was nose-high just like pulling out of the parking lot the first time.

That leads me to suspect that the fluid level is low for whatever reason and that it pumped air when the clutch was pushed in on the incline. Of course, the dealer claims to have checked that, but it wouldn't be the first time a dealer wasn't "on the level" with a customer.

The only time I might "need" a mechanic is for the computer stuff that only the dealer (or a well equipped independent) can do. Otherwise, there isn't anything that I can't do. There is plenty that I don't want to do, but I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay for what I can do at home. ;-) Obviously, I need to send stuff out for machine work, but so do most shops.

If I hadn't expected VW to fix it under warranty, I'd have just fixed it myself in the first place... now that there's a chance that they might, I'm sorta torn as to what to do.

Another big issue is time... I have a newborn (3 weeks) and a toddler - spare time isn't very available right now. ;-)

I sort of think that VW might cover this, but I'm just not sure if I'm willing to take the $550 gamble. I'll have to sleep on it another night or two...

thanks, Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

Sure there are. A couple of them are even good friends of mine... but I don't *need* someone else to fix it - I just *want* VW to fix it. ;-)

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

That sounds like a clutch master or slave cylinder problem to me, esp. if it happens after the car sits idle for a time. But my experience is limited only to my single failure. The clutch shares its fluid with the brake reservoir, so it is unlikely it is low on fluid.

Reply to
C_S

Well, good luck then.

Reply to
Papa

I didn't realize that the clutch and brakes shared the same reservoir - there goes that theory. ;-) The fluid isn't low...

It didn't happen after a sit - in fact, both times were after a 75+ mile drive. It's very odd to me that the first time the symptoms went away almost immediately, but the next time there was no change during the 50 mile drive to the dealer.

I'm itching to get my hands on it to see what's going on, but I have to wait to see what VWOA says first. I should have some details either way by mid-week or so.

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

It is is really like you describe, then I would say, that the clutch itself is most probably ok. There are not many ways it can go bad, and none of them causes such a symptoms. Its is usually exact the opposite: the clutch slips if it or its pressure plate springs are broken in any way.

I would bet, that there is a problem somewhere in a clutch release mechanism: master or slave cylinder, or maybe some lever in gearbox.

I think it is literally impossible :) You will need some sort of anchor in order to keep your car parked at _that_ angle :)

Reply to
draugaz

And I agree completely.

Yep, good point.

I wouldn't expect it to be anything internal to the gearbox, but possibly a lever involved with depressing the clutch for sure.

Again though, it all comes down to whether or not VWOA is willing to commit to anything without the risk of spending $550 for them to take it apart. I'll be placing the call shortly, but who knows how long it will take to get anywhere.

Craig

Reply to
Craig Faison

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