Lets Start a GAS WAR

That is because this author is to put it simply, FULL OF SHIT. How does it really take any more oil to produce a hybrid vehicle than a standard one and over the life of the vehicle, it will use less petroleum products than a conventional one. As for conservation, how could it have no effect? If you use less, it lasts longer and there is no magic about that. He is trying to mix conservation with efficiency and they are two very different things.

Actually, the real answer is that there is no simple way to satisfy our energy needs without oil, not that there is no way but lets get something clear, there is a big difference between our actual needs and what we actually use and waste..

Back to spinning what I said again, huh Miles. I said that many people that don't actually need them are buying them for whatever reason. I am not trying to define anothers needs but if you really believe that every one of them out on the road was bought because the owner needed it, you are really an idiot. As for capability, ith the possible exception of towing and offroad, a minivan can outdue a SUV in just about everything, including mileage. The problem is that they are not COOL like a SUV which is the actualy reason most of them are bought.

Are you saying that your house is too small for a third car to fit or that you can't park in your driveway? It sounds like more lame selfish excuses to me. Like I said, you keep whining about or dependency on foreign oil but are completely unwilling to do anything about it.

Actually I was wrong. It is actually $450 and yes, only liability. It is a third car, what more does it need.

Clunker...no, older vehicle...YEP. And even still, it never breaks down and gets much better mileage than my truck. And on top of that, I can take it to the mall and shopping centers and not have to worry about it.

I thought that you said they already had it. You really need to get your information straight.

Well, as you mentionedm Toyota and Lexus.

But the Japanese hybrids are no longer "new" vehicles and have been on the roads for years now. More than can be said for the American car companies and their short sighted thinking.

LOL, are you serious!!!

Why??? Because they are cool, LOL. A minivan hybrid would serve

100000000000000000000 times the purpose of a hybrid SUV. An SUV is really a completely useless vehicle but they sit high and look cool and would still be for the most part non-existent if it wasn't for the American Auto Manufacturers using them as an end run around the federal requirements for mileage and safety and dolled them up like luxury cars.

And they still get shit for mileage. Just about any econo-box can kick their ass for about half the cost.

Really, who do you know that has one, especially since they are only offered in limited quantities in a few states. And besides that, it only gets 17 /

19 MPG. My truck gets close to that and you claim yours does better and at around $30,000 for just about nothing, it is no wonder that they are not overly popular.

Because ther is no point in doing that with current technology.

Are they really behind or do they just see no big market in them?

Just because they say they will do it doesn't mean that it will actually happen. When cost cutting becomes critical, what do you think will be the first thing to go? The fact is that fuel cell vehicles running on gas will get no better mileage and will be incredibly complex. While I commend GM for working with the technology and agree that it could be the future in automotive technology, we need something that will be practical today as well, not something that is still decades away. The Japanese companies unlike the American companies are both looking ahead and utilizing technology that is available today to help solve todays and the problems of the near future.

No, they are using what we have today to get the answer out today, not 20 years from now like GM may be doing.

LOL, now who is naive. Conservation is the answer to today's problems and anything that can assist in doing that is going in the right direction. The only reason that GM is even thinking about fuel cell development is because they are losing market share to companies that are building fuel efficient vehicles and for that alone, it is completely worth it. Now if you have some numbers to back up what you said I would be glad to see them. BTW, even your fuel cell vehicles require batteries that use those same resources that you are whining about with the hybrids.

None as far as I know. They haven't been around that long yet.

Once again, you talk out of your ass. Those old GM vehicles used HEAVY lead acid batteries and some may have even tried NiCd which are a far cry from the batteries of today. Perhaps you should do a little research there.

Please explain how in this global economy?

There is no benefit in using our own oil over that of others and if you think that there is, explain how. As for developing newer energy sources, it will only happen when there is a true need which would be either national security or economic feasibility. You say that you look at both but in reality, you only look at things that don't impact your lifestyle or require anything from you.

But they serve a need for today. Future development is nothing but a gamble and while it needs to be done, the short term also needs to be dealt with. I find it funny that you accuse me of only looking long term and then defend GM for doing exactly the same thing. The only real difference is that you falsely accuse me of doing it while GM is actually doing it.

LOL, yea, sure. Please point me to some link that backs this up and explains the difference between explatory and well drilling. You will probably find in your search that they are the same damn thing.What they did, IIRC, was sonic and seismic testing which revealed the possibikity of oil but that is the bast that it can do. If they actually drilled as you suggest, they would KNOW that there was iol, approximently how much and what type.

They know that something is different underground, not what or how much but if I am wrong, please point me to a site that confirms what you are saying for my education.

No, exploratory drilling confirms what the other test indicate and is exactly the same as regular drilling without the pumping and transportation infrastructure being completed.

Now that depends on exactly what infrastructure you are talking about. Sorry Miles, but the one really squirming here is you and what does this have to do with conservation and hybrids anyway?

Yep. the problem is that they will get no better mileage than a conventional vehicle although they will do it with far less polution.

It will help to perfect the fuel cell technology and how it applies to vehicles but does little for the problems we have today.

They will probably have to liquefy the hydrogen which would require people that actually know what they are doing to fill up the vehicles and that will increase the cost to the consumer.

electronics,

I agree but that does little for us now.

And yet how quickly it was forgotten. The difference here is that this is not a short term glitch like the gas crisis of the 70's was and it will only get worse from here.

And neither will fuel cell vehicles, especially since they will be completely dependent on their electric motors and batteries.

You are the one that said gas guzzling SUV's are a problem and these Japanese hybrids are a great solution. People who are buying hybrids are not choosing them instead of an SUV. These hybrids are only replacing other economy cars. The savings in fuel is peanuts.

If its a clunker then liability is fine. If its worth something then possibly comprehensive is needed.

Whoa here TBone. First you discount the Ford because it won't be out till later, then you use Toyota and Lexus as examples of SUV hybrids? They won't be out for quite some time.

No. SUV Hybrids make more sense because they will replace those gas guzzling SUV's you whine about. Hybrid cars you love are bought by people who would have bought an econo car anyways. Little savings there to save the world with TBone.

GM had its electric cars out many years before anyone else was doing a thing.

How many 100,000 mile hybrids then? There are plenty that should have been around long enough for that. They simply do not last that long.

Foreign dependency is never a good thing. If it is, then explain how it causes no problems.

You liberals wont allow any type of exploring for oil. Period. Thats the point. But you are still wrong. Exploratory drilling does not require all the same infrastructure as a full blown drilling and pumping operation.

It doesn't require a permanent drilling station to be built. Big difference.

Ahh..now you back peddle a bit. You're trying to tell me nobody does exploratory drilling because its the same as if they're drilling to pump it anyways. Now its a matter of exactly what infrastructure? too funny.

Well, a hybrid vehicle is certainly more resource-intensive to produce... hence the cost. I tend to agree that the website mentioned above is full of crap, but they do have a couple of valid points...

Of course! I'd estimate we use 60-70% of our resources (money) to buy things we do not really need. Now, try to go out and explain this to average Joe! I seriously believe there's some civil unrest on the way...

btw I hope I'm wrong...

Peter