Removing transmission

Page 3 of 8  
(Big Al) wrote in message:
Ok, by what design? The master cylinder is above the slave cylinder. Gravity would put some pressure on the slave cylinder.
<snip>
Al ================because Budd rearanged all the electrons in the post so's he could rant fer his own benefit.. the following is in Broadway script form... (quite appropriate being as this has turned into a comedy)
Only because we're laughing at your deliberately poor English.
(MARSH replied)
The slave does not back off the "throw out" arm. It stays in contact with it. (Release Arm)
<LOL> So, how many ways can a link to a piston be connected?
Why..??....because if it didn't ..... it would fall out the ball seat on the release arm and when you stomped down on the clutch pedal the rod would shoot out into the bellhousing.....and the slave cylinder piston would come blowing out. Which would be a nasty thing and quite the inconvenience to repair all the time.
Then you have not the knowledge you think you have.
<BUDD said)
ROTFLMBO!!! Got news for you, friend. There are many hydraulic pushrod / socket arrangements that have slack in them . . .Ya just need a socket made a little deeper or a soft rubber retainer to hold them together . . look at the brake pedal push rod if you need proof .
And before you cackle again, the hydraulic pressure on this rod is from the return springs on your braking system pushing it back up after a brake application..
(MARSH said)
A spring placed BEHIND the apply piston inside the slave keeps the piston forward, pushing forward the apply rod, against the release arm, moving the release bearing forward on the bearing retainer, which rides in contact with the pressure plate......AT ALL TIMES, unless the systems fubar'ed.
<BUDD says>
That setup is wrong. The spring has to return the piston.
(MARSH stated))
The spring tension of the Pressure Plate works against the spring tension of the Slave Cylinder apply piston.........
<BUDD said>
And your throwout bearing gets the bejesus worn out of it in short order. and....wah..lah...... It's "voila!" (Fr) [Phonetic: v-wa-la], genius. oh, btw Miss Piggy doesn't say it right.
(MARSH SAID) no hydraulic pressure..... Jest an ole timey mechanical spring and arm set up........in a fancy package.
<BUDD cackled> Bwah-ha-ha-ha!!!!!
(MARSH asked)
Can you figure out why the piston can move in and out at over 1500 rpms without creating hydr. pres. that would actually cause the clutch to apply?
(BUDD said)
Uh, strokes, which are what a piston does are not measured in RPMs, but strokes per (minute, second, day, year, millennium; pick one)
<snip>
================Budd,
#1) if you need to be adding sockets and rubber to hold yer pushrods in.....then you shouldn't be giving the OP advice on how to do a good job...
Then you've never had a brake master cylinder off a 60's era car.
#2) we're are not discussing brakes...and if we were.....could you please tell me where I could find the return springs in my brake system that's causing hydraulic pressure to push the pedal back up...rotflmfao at yer total ignorance of brake hydraulics too.
I see you've never had wheel cylinders apart either.
#3) now this ones tricky....cuz yer correct.....
The spring does return the piston.... jest as I STATED.......... but the for the life of me I can't figure out why you said the setup was wrong but then in the next sentence confirmed what I said. (must've been on the last glass of shroom juice on that one ....aye?)
A spring can't push and pull at the same time.
#4) for the last time you ignernt fool...... the release bearing RIDES ON THE FINGERS of the pressure plate....that's a fact..... and you rant'n on about a release bearing get'n the "bejesus worn out of it in short order", is not gonna change that fact!!!!
And the fingers keep that race turning and turning and . . .
we can debate why the bearing ain't wearing out all the time if you like....but be advised... I'm likely to come out ahead in the spitting match....cuz i'm will'n to bet that i got a hell of a lot better handle on a clutch system than you do....
From what I've read, no, you don't.
#5) i wuz'nt gonna call you names in this thread... but you done started it ... so.......
idiot (at least on clutch systems...and i'm start'n to hope ain't no heavy trucks runn'n round my area that you did brake jobs on too)
I've been called worse by better than you.
Come on, prove you know where your head is at, list YOUR qualifications.
~:~ MARSHMONSTER ~certifiable...not certified~
Not certified to work on vehicles?
Oh, and fire up your spell checker. Your posts are giving mine a headache.
-- Budd Cochran
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. . <inline> ========== ========== (Concerning release bearing to pressure plate clearance)
snipped-for-privacy@SPAM.citlink.net (BuddCochran) worte in message:
<snip>
By design there is supposed to be a small fraction of a inch clearance.
This was seen in the mechanical systems as your pedal's "freeplay".
When air is left in the system the air can warm up and expand causing the fingers to ride the bearing.
--
Budd Cochran
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When air is left in the system......... there is NO WAY IN HELL it will EVER warm up and expand causing the fingers to ride the bearing......especially being as the bearing is already riding on fingers.
a question........... if the air COULD....expand due to heat and apply the bearing.....
then why isn't the fluid expanding and applying the bearing????????
air compress's brake fluid DOES NOT
Air expands when heated, most fluids do not . . . or have you forgotten how a hot air balloon works ( generally taught by the time you get to the third grade).
-- Budd Cochran
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~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his axle grease~
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how
third
Liquid does expand when heated. This is high school physics. That's why hot water rises, or classifies. You're confusing this with compressing liquids. We were taught you can't compress liquids, and even that is false. Under enough pressure it will compress. Ever hear of hot ice?
Al
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hot
liquids.
No, Al, I am not confusing compression with expansion, and I'd appreciate it if you'd quit talking down to me like I'm a kid. The hot air rises for the same reason as the water, CONVECTION, but hot air also EXPANDS.
-- Budd Cochran
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Budd,
Thanks for the warning. Just take a second and read what I took the time to tell you. LIQUID EXPANDS WHEN HEATED! Got it? Another poster tried to explain it but you ignored him too. Here one more time, LIQUID EXPANDS WHEN HEATED. If you don't believe me, fill a pot to the brim with cool water and heat it.
Sorry, but you are really starting to get to me.
Al off to cool down...
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Budd,
Let me apologize for the last post. I think I just misunderstood your reply. What I think you were saying is air ALSO expands. Not that liquid does not expand.
Sorry, please except my apology,
Al Cooled off now....
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I accept and allow me to apologize for a post I just sent to the other reply.
-- Budd Cochran

why
Under
appreciate
reply.
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Well, Al, you got to me a long time ago, but I decided to remain peacable.
And the water rises due to convection currents. Any expansion is negligible.
-- Budd Cochran
WARNING!!!
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common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs
are still important in our society, and might include
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Under
appreciate
to
WHEN
and
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. . <inline> ========== ========== "Marsh Monster" wrote in message:
When air is left in the system......... there is NO WAY IN HELL it will EVER warm up and expand causing the fingers to ride the bearing......especially being as the bearing is already riding on fingers.
a question...........
if the air COULD....expand due to heat and apply the bearing.....
then why isn't the fluid expanding and applying the bearing????????
air compress's
brake fluid DOES NOT
~:~ Marsh ~:~
========== ========== snipped-for-privacy@SPAM.citlink.net (BuddCochran) replied:
Air expands when heated, most fluids do not . .
or have you forgotten how a hot air balloon works ( generally taught by the time you get to the third grade).
--
Budd Cochran
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Go back to the third grade and stay awake this time.
Or did you even get that far?
-- Budd Cochran
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(Budd Cochran) replied:
Air expands when heated, most fluids do not . .
or have you forgotten how a hot air balloon works ( generally taught by the time you get to the third grade). -- Budd Cochran ========================Budd, you have not ceased to amaze me at your ability to prove yourself wrong without even suspecting you're doing it.
(quoting you) "Air expands when heated, most fluids do not"
lmao
1) i did not say air would not expand when heated.
i DID say it compress's
i also DID say that brake fluid would not compress. (please take note...there will be a quiz)
2) i see you stated in open forum that... (and i do quote) "most fluids do not" expand.
could YOU...... maybe..... possibly.... hopefully...
pull out of yer arse.....
jest one fluid that DOES expand when heated,
maybe one that applies to this thread.....??
go ahead...jest one..
i dare you....
NO DAMNITT.....not engine coolant!!!
rotflmao @ budd
3) as previously stated, I AM aware that hot air expands.....(jest look what you've done to this thread with all yers)...and I am aware of it's effects on balloons, though I am not sure I learned it in third grade.
4) I feel sure that you have'nt mastered the concept of hydraulic brake and clutch systems yet......something that is learned in the 1st or 2nd year of apprenticeship as an auto tech......
rotflmao @ the small eng. tech / heav. trk tech.
~:~ MarshMonster ~eats nibbles on a cotterpin and chase's it down with some gear oil~
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. . <inline> ======== ======== snipped-for-privacy@SPAM.citlink.net (BuddCochran) wrote in message:
Air expands when heated, most fluids do not . .
--
Budd Cochran

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Not likely since there is no closed end to allow pressure to build.
Once the master cylinder is in the retracted position the entire system is open to the reservoir, any expansion of the fluid or entrapped air will merely push that volume of fluid back into the reservoir. When the clutch pedal is slightly depressed, the piston covers the MC port to prevent pressure from back feeding into the reservoir.
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John has described exactly why there is a problem (and there should be with air in the system). If for whatever reason (and there are many reasons between design and real life) the air does NOT travel back the the master cylinder, it will be trapped when the MC travels past the port. If the air is trapped, it doesn't matter where it is in the system, it will have a negative effect on clutch operation.
Given the variation of designs, from automotive to industrial, air in a hydraulic system can have a negative effect in almost any phase of operation, depending on the system.
As such, we can now debate what amount of air, if that air has more or less of an effect than the preload spring, if the preload spring is there or not, and a myriad of other variables that can occur.
But one irrevocable fact remains: Air isn't supposed to be in the system.
So whether you think you are a clutch expert from the swamp, a wanna be technician named after a cheap cut of beef, or simply an experienced technician, you have to bleed the system.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
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And in typical fashion you reply at length to a post where I basically agree with you.
Whatever.
--
Max

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Oh? If you agree with me in my disagreement with Budd why did you make this statement on 10/28 that agrees with Budd?
An improperly bled system has air in it. Air (any gas, be it air, or fluid vapor) can expand and contract due to temperature, and thus can allpy (sic) a small amount of pressure over designed pressure to the throwout bearing."
Typical flip-flop.
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Do you disagree that an improprerly bled system is working improperly? Do you have proof that an improperly bled system cannot apply more pressure to a (in this case) static TO bearing?
Do you know EVERY possible situation, problem, result, solution to a hydraulic system?
If not, maybe its time to sit back and accept that weird things do happen.
Typical whining from you. Time to shut up, like you had been for a couple of months.
--
Max

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fluid
bearing."
to
Do you have proof that it can? As you both know and are counting on, it is impossible to prove a negative but since you seem to be now making the claim that it can happen (a positive), how about backing it up.

Resorting to the law of infinite possibilities now, are we? I must say Max, you do make me laugh.

If the probability is near zero, then counting it is nothing more than ignorance and paranoia. If you follow this bullshit reasoning, how do you begin any repairs? After all, there could be millions of reasons why that trans won't shift so how would you ever start? The real answer is that you don't really buy this crap either. You will just spin to any level to not have to admit to being wrong. Like I said, you do make me laugh.

of
Perhaps you should follow your own advice every now and then.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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It is not what I say can or can't happen, it is the laws of physics, and high school physics at that.

unless
Now who is the one not holding up to there word? So much for having an intelligent converstation.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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