Toyota Reliability Slips behind Honda

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On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:01:24 -0500, "C. E. White"


I have read similar comments many times in newsgroups as well and it only convinces me that there are a lot of people who like to bash CR, but who don't actually know much about it. As even White points out; CR doesn't accept outside advertising. This is probably the most fundamental principle of the organization and anyone who doesn't know this can hardly be considered an authority CR.

The subscribers want unbiased reviews of products to allow them to make informed buying decisions. What appeals to them is objectivity and testing skill.

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CR subscribers tend to make rational, well researched buying decisions. In the past, Toyota has ranked at the top of reliability so it isn't surprising that more CR subscribers prefer them. As for CR's preferences, well, read on.

Of course the survey results are not an editorial decision but rather the experiences reported by the owners. In this case, the owners are reporting that Toyota reliability has dropped for at least some models and Ford has improved. CR has chosen to highlight this fact in a special article. If their motivation is to stroke Toyota loyalists, they must be stupid. If the goal is unbiased reporting, they are doing their job.

This is another myth promulgated by CR bashers. CR favors cars that deliver what they are supposed to deliver. Simple and basic may be desirable for economy cars. For sports and luxury cars, low performance and blandness is a ticket to the bottom of the rankings.

Really? Read on.

Then why did they trash the V6 Camry, the V8 Tundra and the AWD Lexus GS?

Well, let's see if objective facts bear you out. Of the 21 categories of vehicles tested by CR, here are the manufacturers of the top rated models and the number of categories they won:
Honda    5 Toyota    4 Nissan    3 Porsche    2 GM        2 Mazda    2 Mini         1 Mercedes    1 VW        1
Hardly an overwhelming bias for Toyota. And considering the narrow range of cars manufactured by Porsche, having two models at the top of their respective categories is pretty impressive. Does Porsche make the simple, basic, proven, unexciting, uninteresting, low performance vehicles that you claim CR prefers?
If CR is biased toward Toyotas (because they prefer basic to interesting or for whatever reason), how do you explain these facts:
Among Sports/Sporty cars, Scion tC ranks ninth out of ten, beating only Cobalt.
Among Performance/Luxury Sports Cars, Lexus SC430 ranks eighth out of ten.
Among Budget Cars in both AT and MT categories, Yaris ranks sixth out of seven, beaten by a Kia, a Hyundai and a Ford.
Among Family Sedans, Camry ranks only fifth out of twenty.
Note that all of the above rankings are based only on CR testing. They do not take reliability into account.
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:41:55 -0700, jim beam

You are implying that CU can be bribed. Considering the extensive efforts CU makes to eliminate commercial influence on its results, perhaps you could provide some support for this allegation.
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I don't believe in conspriacy theories as they apply to Consumer Reports (or JD Powers either). However, Consumer Reports clearly has an agenda and they clearly have opinions. Like everyone else, their opinons, biases, agendas, etc. affect what and how they report. I am certain that CR and I do not agree on what makes a good car. For instance, they really liked the current Toyota RAV4. My SO has one, and I've driven it many miles. It is not a bad vehcile, however, it has the worst , most illogical array of controls I have ever seen - CR never mentioned the control layout. Also the seats were not comfortable, but CR gave them high marks. Finally, I thought the 4 cylinder engine provided more than adequate power, while CR was steering people to the V6. Different people can have different opinions and neither position is wrong. I like to read CR. I enjoy reading their opinions, even when I don't sgree with them. My late Father loved CR. I can't tell you how many things we had to buy based on what he read in CR. Some things worked out well, somethings didn't. When he was shopping for his last new car, he was absolutely set on buying a Toyota Highlander - right up until he test drove one. Ten minutes driving it convniced him CR didn't always know what was best.
Ed
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As an owner of both Toyota and Honda products, I'd put my money on the reliability of the older 22RE over any Honda product. Better yet I still have one with the 20R on the road. These Jap companies should just stick to the 4-cyclinder engines that originally got them their great reliability ratings. I wouldn't own another Honda or Toyota that didn't have a 4 banger in it.
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wrote:

I've said for a long time, a 4 cylinder Honda with a manual transmission is an absolute jewel of a drivetrain. Bulletproof, and will last forever.
Compare that to the automatic transmissions they put on their V6 cars during 98-04. I hope they took those beancounters out to a field and shot them all.
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I wouldn't and I've owned both. I'm not saying the 22RE is bad just I wouldn't bet against the Honda engines either.
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