Big Crash out side my house last night

A friends 4x4 did the same, his went out of control right across a duel-carriageway and into a lampost. In a decent car I doubt they would have rolled or had the accident in the first place, just clipped the kerb and driven on. I bet you have clipped a kerb in you car without problem.

4x4's might survive an accident but it's often their drivers not allowing for their high centre of gravity, naff roadholding and handling, bad brakes etc, that causes the accident in the first place.

If I hit a kerb in my car at 60mph it would probably be ok, the suspension is rock hard, but my wife's A4 wouldn't be so solid. The main problem with this prick was his speed.

With respect Bob, I think your own vehicles are colouring your opinions of

4x4s in general. My TD5 Disco has excellent brakes and good roadholding. Whilst it might roll if I tried hard enough, a good driver will in most cases be able to avoid these conditions, as you imply.

Anybody doing 60 in a 30mph residential area is clearly taking risks, whatever they're driving. In a 328i the kids may well have side-swiped the wall (I don't know, I didn't see the accident) and seriously injured the nearside passengers, for example.

David

On or around Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:01:08 +0100, "Bob Hobden" enlightened us thusly:

you speak for your 4x4...

I've yet to get the 110 out of shape other than on summat like a diesel spill, and then all that happened was total understeer (low-speed corner, mind), followed by sliding sideways to a stop.

and it gets hammered, that's why I'm always having to fix it :-)

and the brakes are pretty good, too. not quite up to modern saloon standards, but pretty good.

in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Austin Shackles at snipped-for-privacy@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk wrote on 8/4/04 9:28 pm:

The Discovery has the best brakes, second is the Range Rover. The Lightweights aren't too bad as they are servo assisted, but the Series 3 - well as far as I am concerned they're just put there for show to let the people behind you know that you do intend to stop eventually.

Nikki Cluley posted ...

I'd generally agree with your assessment of LR brakes, but it didn't take us long to really sort the S3's brakes .. It's a simple matter of good clean fluids, no air contamination, good bleed through, good clean seals, good clean shoes, clean and sealed cylinders, decent hoses, good connections, adjustments made correctly and in the right order and after all that over a few days, finally finding a brake pedal that actually moves, and noticing that the brake pedal, when it finally does move, isn't merely bending the whole of the front of the footwell when you press it ... ;)

Happy days ... ;)

Quite, driving it like it was just a tall sportscar, and it's surprising how many people do drive these big heavy 4x4's like that.

Firstly, I was talking comparatively. Your TD5 Disco, I'm sure, is up to spec or better but it hasn't the stopping distance of a similar priced modern car, it hasn't the roadholding or the handling either. Even JC proved it on Top Gear. And, because of it's high centre of gravity it will roll a lot quicker than any modern car. It's the laws of physics. Get the suspension wound up on a corner and hit a kerb with the inside wheel may be all it takes to take it over the edge. As for this idiot driver doing twice the 30mph speed limit, it's lucky some innocent didn't get killed. If he had been in the 328i; well, as I doubt he would ever have driven a car more competent than his abilities before, he would have pushed it further than he could cope with, therefore probably had a more serious accident because of a much higher speed. The same as the pop star putting a Ferraris through a hedge we constantly used to hear about.

This is the "Paramedical Paradox". We get called to visually spectacular RTCs where the scrotes are virtually unharmed, yet I've been to really mundane looking prangs where law abiding people have ended up with fractured spines.

Add to the equation that they hardly ever wear seatbelts, and you wonder how they get away with it!

Cheers

Blippie

-- Visit the alt.aviation.safety FAQ online at

You could always chase them in the ambulance and run them over. Or is that against the Hippocratic Oath?

Makes dents.

Cheers

Blippie

-- Visit the alt.aviation.safety FAQ online at

drink , drugs and the fact they are so unaware of their circumstances and the other road users they never brace for impact ?

Talked to a colleague who has also observed this phenomenon. She calls it the Rule of Scrote.

Cheers

Blippie

-- Visit the alt.aviation.safety FAQ online at

Rhinocratic Oaths? (Just part of my current Bonzo theme.)