Winches: electric or hydraulic?

I moved the 101 about a foot up the garden just to test that the tirfor worked. I was knackered after that and decided that i really need to try hard not to get stuck such that i need it! (and i need to strip and oil the tirfor properly!)

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The 101 Forward Control Club and Register

In message , Ian Rawlings writes

Hi Ian

I have fitted a few of the MileMarker type hydraulic winches for customers and for myself. They are fantastically reliable as long as they are fitted properly. Safe routing of pipes is essential to ensure trouble free operation.

I fitted two of them using dedicated pumps and one using the original pas pump all of them work fine and pull well.

Personally if I were running a V8 for offroading I would go for electric due to the greater chance of ending up with a dead engine. But for a Diesel I would always go for a hydraulic.

My current 90 came with a husky fitted which although is a great winch I have often wished that I had got round to putting the Milemarker on it.

How do you do that Marc ? Do you need a changeover valve or something ?

Steve

Fun innit. :-)

Bloody hard work.

But fun, yes, in a knackered, muddy, sweaty kinda way. ;)

Cheers, I'm not sure he'll be doing the fitting himself, he's capable of doing it but after rebuilding an MG-C several times I think he's lost the will ;-) I'll make sure he gives the work done a good check.

So you've not had to rebuild the winch motor at all? A friend with a new Warn 9000i has had to do so and clean out muck a few times after sticky off-road pay 'n' play days.

An alternative I think is fitting a dedicated pump where the aircon compressor would go, which might ease fitment slightly or might make it harder, needs looking into. The steering pump seems to be the most popular route and the winches are then very powerful so it seems to do the job although I'm quite surprised too!

Thanks Marc, it's a 300TDi it's being fitted to, and currently he's not claiming to be doing much water, just winching a large load around, personally I think he'll be better off just pullingq it, I suspect he wants a winch and will then start off-roading the truck more.

How have you found it to compare when it comes to maintenance? Have you needed to do anything to the electric that you've never needed to do to the hydraulic, and vice-versa?

No you just plumb it in between pump and box (on the HP side obviously).

I have done another thinking of it that used an uprated pas pump and a reducer to stop you blowing the pas box to bits.

So far I have not had to do anything in the way of repairs to the MileMarkers although the bearing on the front of my Hydraulic pump is starting to make a bit of noise.

The Huskey has let me down a couple of times due to solenoid issues now fixed by fitting an albright.

Electric winches suffer a lot more due to lack of use.

Thanks Marc, I suspected that they'd be more robust than electrics, I'll factor all that in when my friend who wants the winch finally gets back to me on what he's actually intending to do with it! I quite like the Ramsey units.

Yes and there's also the option of using the position where the 24V generator can go. The thing is I think a single Vee belt can transmit about 11kW at ~2000rpm, about twice that of a heavy duty electric winch. I don't know what the power steering pump does. With powerful hydraulics you need to consider oil cooling and oil reserve capacity but I do think the LR drum winch oil system is overkill for a lot of uses.

As I said I've not used one but you do need to differentiate between power and pull. Most recovery trucks seem to use 24V electric winches and these are used quite heavily suggesting they are the economic option.

AJH

I've still got a 24V one which I intended to fit below the load bed of the 110 but the need never arose. The intention was to fit two exide

650Rs in the battery box with a changeover switch, should have given about 20minutes of winching in theory, previous experience suggest 5minutes more likely.

AJH

I usually drop a black bin bag over it secured with a bungee until/if it's required. I have wondered how long the motor will last before it needs maintenance or attention, it has done quite a lot of hard work. I think the time has come to check.

Martin

I beg to differ, the vast majority of recovery trucks use Hydraulic winches, unless there is some reason why the truck cannot be fitted with hydraulics.

We have somewhere round 25 winches on the fleet, only 3 of them electric.

I've had my Warn XD9000i fitted for almost 10 years, and never once has it failed me. And it does get dipped in the mud and crap a lot. So I'd say a

*decent* electric winch (for me) is better than an engine driven one as I have a V8 :) You can always keep swapping batteries and charging them!

Blimey, I know a few people with electrics who have had to rebuild them reasonably regularly, one of them owns a Warn 9000i too, not sure what's going on there!

I've also heard and read a few reports of electric winches not working when underwater, and Warn themselves charging for new motors due to mud and water ingress burning out the motor, as an example here's a quote from this link;

-------------------- The front of my Land Rover was partially submerged (up to the bumper) in water. After taking the strain on the cable the winch stopped working. As the winch was under one year old it was returned to Warn, for what I thought to be a warranty repair. I received a reply which I feel could be of interest to other readers who have already purchased or are thinking of purchasing one. I was informed that mud and water had got into the electric motor and burnt it out and that the winch would require a new motor. This was at a cost of approximately £200 to myself because they are not designed to run in the conditions I had used it and the warranty would not cover this. This came as a big surprise to me and I feel my experience must be passed on to others. It can be necessary on many occasions to use a winch in the situation I have explained. I feel very strongly that this should be noted as my decision to buy this winch was based on the experience I felt Warn had in this field. I have since been more aware of the marketing used to promote this product and have noted that on no occasion have I seen the winch used in muddy conditions, this I find very misleading. I would appreciate any comments from other readers who have experienced this problem.

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So according to Warn themselves, their winches are not designed to stand up to wet and muddy conditions, which is a bit shit to be honest, it seems if it's been OK for you then that's despite the winch not being designed for it. A hydraulic is (I believe) sealed (although some have electronic controls, not so sure about those) and will work in such conditions. This is one reason I personally don't like electrics, they're not designed to work in mud or water, which is when you'll most want the thing to work!

It's like a solar-powered GPS I bought, if you leave it in direct sunlight, the battery overheats and dies, great innit ;-)

Hmmmm ... mine is the one with the solenoids etc on the top, not remote. As I say ... works fine ... maybe it's to do with the wash down afterwards? I have marshalled plenty of national events and followed competitors around with electric Warn winches which have worked submerged in the winch death that is the clay pit of the back of Tixover (for example). Lesser winches have died quite quickly..... to the extent we even saw a t-max one snap (ouch - that's the *winch* snapping - not the rope.....)

No idea, but the manufacturer stating that it mustn't be used in wet and muddy conditions would pretty much rule it out for me to be honest, I know that V8s don't die the second they touch water, it's just that the risks are higher than they are with diesels. I didn't buy a V8 because of that, so doubt I'd get an electric for similar reasons.

Still, it's not me buying the winch, I'll pass it all on to my friend and see what he wants to do with it.