It all depends on his use to be honest. If he's going to moving things from A to B in a normal environment, then either will suffice. If he's likely to be at the bottom of a big hole needing to get out, then it's take yer choice - engine works - hydraulic, engine dead electric ;-)
Electric winch - water - no winch - no warranty ;-P
It's pretty clear that the best choice depends on circumstance, how about a hydraulic one at the front, an electric one with 4 spare batteries at the rear, and a tirfor on the load bed!
Personally I've always carried a tirfor (actually a brano) and some ground anchors, so far never needed it, hence no vehicle-mounted winch, and won't get one until I get around to figuring out a central mount with routable front to rear cable. I mostly do light green laning and spec the road out first, the biggest danger with the pinz is falling into a ditch as that's what it takes to stick it on any lane that is otherwise drivable.
All I currently know about my friend's situation is that he's got a
300TDi Defender 110 and a field shelter (for his hoss) he wants to move around, I doubt he needs a winch for that so I've told him towing is best, but I think he just wants a winch for self-recovery, if that's what he's really after I'll recommend the tirfor and see how often he needs it. He's not the type to be phased by a 15-mile walk across rough terrain in the dark, he does such things for fun!
Sounds like the best plan. I'd be towing it myself - it's a lot cheaper ;-)
Tirfors for self recovery are fine, unless you are in a hurry! In fact I had one before I got the winch, the WORST thing I ever recovered with was my hi-lift and a short chain. Tedious, crap and dangerous, oh and VERY slow ;-)
Yep, but I know what he's like, a few years ago he wanted something to tow a horsebox, knowing how expensive defenders are compared to other vehicles that can do the job I was recommending things like Pajeros with locking rear diffs, but in the end he was just trying to justify buying a defender ;-) Spent close to 15K on one IIRC. So now I reckon he's best off buying jate rings and a thick tow rope or two with some natural stretch (not a KR) but I reckon he'll get a winch..
Yeah, having a tirfor is a real incentive not to get stuck. I used it once to winch an accidentally three-wheeled lotus 100 feet down a flat tarmac road onto a trailer, that alone took me ages. I've got one of those hi-lift recovery kits, I shudder at the sight of it. I ought to put it in the defender being as all the proper recovery gear is now in the pinz other than the hi-lift and a collapsible shovel/pick...
Did you use it with one of those chains with the funny hook on it, so "winch" it forwards a foot, re-shorten the chain, re-attach the hi-lift, forward another foot etc etc?
In news:ItGdnW0x snipped-for-privacy@bt.com, Neil Brownlee wibbled :
Normal environment? Round here the normal environment is pretty darn damp. Seems to me Warn winches are not fit for purpose and should be treated as such, returned for full refund!
Yup ... and guess what - only the once ;-) 4 hours to move a dead vehicle a few feet out of a mud hole in the middle of nowhere!
Having seen a few cheap chinese ones fail miserably in dusty environments ... I'll stick with my Warn thankyou very much :) For me 10 years and still working without a stripdown is a testament to the quality, but that's just
*my* experience. YMMV. :)
Next time, just drink all the mud and drive out!
Apparently pretty much all the electric winches aren't designed for use in wet and muddy conditions, which I find slightly ridiculous, but sealing them causes heat problems and fixing that would make them extremely expensive. You can't rely 100% on anything, but I'd rather not rely on a device that's not intended to work in the situation it's most likely to find itself in..
Anyone know of an electric winch that's *designed* to work OK in wet/muddy conditions? I read that the Superwinch/Goodwinch G10 has some waterproofing and a large heatsink.
In news: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com, Neil Brownlee wibbled :
I suspected as much, but I think Warn should look to their policy.
I just phoned goodwinch and they can't confirm that their winches are designed to stand up to wet and muddy conditions... So they don't even know yet. Apparently David (Bowyer I think) will be in on Wednesday so he might know.
On their website;
"The winch had to be designed as a waterproof unit to give both reliability and longevity. To keep mud and water out, 'V' ring seals, 'O' ring seals and felt seals needed to be fitted throughout."
"The chosen motor is now an Bowmotor high-efficiency 5.6 HP waterproof unit which gives the G10 a good high speed."
OK so keep away from those Warn units then unless they've started making waterproof versions!!
Mind you I still might check to make sure that a leak leading to winch death would be a warranty repair, if not then they can't have much confidence in it.
Ditto, Warn winches rock.
Martin
If they answer "none" to my information request about winches in their ranges that are designed to work in muddy, wet conditions, then they won't rock at all! I've already seen that they state the 9000i isn't intended to be used in wet, muddy conditions and will invalidate the warranty if so used (and more seriously, runs a serious risk of failing).
I've never needed to get in touch with Warn as I've used my 8274 for over 15 years with no trouble at all. I can't see anywhere on the motor (or anywhere else for that matter) that is not sealed but I've also never had any overheating problems. What more can I say? Only that their office staff don't appear to be as efficient as their winches. Warn are American as far as I know but I think Ryder International (or something like that) in Merseyside are the concessionaires. For serious winching on a Landrover I don't think you could beat the old Fairey, shaft driven from the PTO.
Martin
It is odd because I do know of a few who have had water ingress and rebuilt as a result on high-end Warn winches, the 9000i isn't designed to be waterproof/mudproof, and supposedly pretty much all electrical winches are known to overheat if used a lot. Perhaps you need to follow Martyn's mate around to compensate for his super bad luck ;-)
The problem with the PTO is that you pretty much always have to winch without the aid of the vehicle's wheels turning according to those who I've heard from who have them, although I don't see why that would be the case unless they were turning in the opposite direction. I suppose it might be down to wheel speed versus line speed combinations being unsuitable?
Well, that's what they did, I don't want to just post the email verbatim in a public forum just out of courtesy, not because it's got anything particularly embarassing in it but the basics are;
They are water *resistant* to a degree but the motor has air vents, as such a hot winch hitting water will suck in water and risk corrosion damage, which is not covered under warranty. If the winch has been submerged and a warranty claim is made against damage that was not related to the submerging then the warranty claim will be honoured.
He didn't mention mud and associated small stones/grit, which can also get inside and cause more than corrosion damage!
He also didn't mention why it takes a hot winch hitting water to make it suck in water, you might expect that with a sealed winch, but an unsealed winch with air vents, as he says Warn winches are, would surely fill with water even when cold.
So I'd steer clear of Warn winches for sure, and check that any other winch you look at getting will actually stand up to being used in muddy and wet conditions.
I'll phone Goodwinch/David Bowyer tomorrow and see if theirs are any better, and if they back their claims up with valid warranties (the real test of whether they mean what they say!)
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