Winches: electric or hydraulic?

Wotcher all, a friend of mine wants to add a winch to his landy, at the moment I don't know what his spec is, e.g. how much to pull and how often, but even without those two variables, I've heard that electric winches need to be rebuilt regularly due to muck, and also tend to operate at more of a strain on the vehicle due to the electrics and battery wear. I know about that kind of thing but don't know if hydraulics have issues of their own. On a defender with no aircon it seems that a hydraulic winch wouldn't really be harder to fit than an electric and would probably be less hassle as there's less components working at near their limit than there are in an electrical system, but this is just stuff I've heard and don't have any direct experience (I have a tirfor and have rarely needed it).

So, any comments on the above? A friend of mine who's used electrics thinks he'll go for hydraulic next time as he reckons it'll be less hassle, but we don't know for sure yet. Has anyone got direct experience of both and what were your findings? I know that hydraulics are supposed to be able to go on all day, it's mostly reliability, ease of fitment and ease of maintenance that we're thinking of here.

Cheers all!

Reply to
Ian Rawlings
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All engine run winches have to have an engine running.....

Steve

Reply to
Steve Taylor

Get a winches that doesnt need elccy to run - such as a Trifor.

Reply to
Sean

No shit.

Reply to
SimonJ

Amazing how many people forget until they are in a winching problem with a dead engine...

Steve

Reply to
Steve Taylor

Yeah, happens all the time, can't move at the average pay 'n' play site for people slapping their foreheads saying "if only I'd remembered to bring an engine!"....

Anyone got anything serious to say on this one?

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

Electric - cheap, easy to fit, can run with no engine provided you have at least one spare battery. Short term use is alright, heavy duty probably not do.

Hydraulic - more heavy duty, needs a little more thought when fitting, will work longer, possibly slower.

PTO - slow, totally reliable if you have an engine. Better in a 101 as you can run the cable via front or rear of vehicle (I've rarely gone forward when stuck, so cannot see the point of having any winch on the front really - unless you regularly reverse into difficult situations).

You're looking at an electric winch, then :-)

Also bear in mind the cable / rope question. Plasma rope is good, very good and a zillion times safer than cable as it will just 'drop' when breaking under strain, unlike cable, which acts like cheesewire and will literally cut the top of a Defender.

Plasma rope 'can' melt on a winch.

Reply to
.mother

Have you ever done any serious recovery work with a tirfor?

Reply to
EMB

In my experience of off roading (though limited to a few play days) i've seen quite a few recoveries done due to dead engines.

Admittedly you can always climb out and sit on the engine and dry out the ignition bits on a petrol engine but in that time you could have recovered it out of the puddle using your electric winch and be on dry land! sensible point in my mind - When my 2A has been recovered while offroading, 50% of the time it was because i'd killed it ;)

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Reply to
Tom Woods

Are you wilfully missing the point, or should I spell it out carefully. If your engine dies, you're knackered for self-recovery. There. Clear ?

Hydraulics and PTOs are great if you are doing the recovery though, and they can run virtually all day, though a hydraulic one may well need a fan assisted oil cooler.

Is there a commercial PTO winch anymore for Landrovers ?

Steve

Reply to
Steve Taylor

Yes, electric every time, Warn 8274, can't beat 'em, used one for years. If you're pulling anything *really* heavy then use a snatch block. Only thing that's ever gone wrong with mine is I've lost a bolt once from one of the ratchet pawls. And as someone said you can even self recover with a dead engine. I suppose now there are better options with low profile winches but I've never had any overheating of the engine issues because of the winch height.

Martin

Reply to
Oily

Cheers Martyn, what I am really after at the moment is information on how easy to fit and maintain a hydraulic winch, all the rest of the advantages/disadvantages of electric versus hydraulic I can readily find via google, but I've not really found out much about what needs regularly doing to each. I found out from a friend about having to rebuild his Warn 9000i on a regular basis due to water and dirt getting into the motor, I was wondering if there are any maintenance issues with hydraulic winches, either with dirt or with any other issues.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

I've seen a few electrics that have stopped working properly because of dirt and water in the workings, neither the "dead engine" issue or the "water in the workings" issue or any host of other pros/cons is a killer issue, because for each issue on one side there's another 'killer' on the other.

I'm not after "electric versus hydraulic" anyhow, that's a decision that'll be made later, all I am trying to find out now is maintenance and fitment issues specifically for hydraulics. Has anyone here ever fitted and used one?

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

yes plenty - thats why i would have a Trifor rather than a winch that needs a engine to run in order to use it.

leccy winches are good for people who are physically weak and who dont know how to rig lines correctly, used correctly a trifor will pull allmost anything (just requires muscle| to operate)

Reply to
Sean

Hydraulic winches are no trouble at all if they are fitted properly, by that I mean pipes clipped up out of the way, header tank up high to keep out water ingress etc., so quite a bit of work and care needed when fitting, same goes for mechanical. Electric winches, limited power (know your winch and use a snatch block if necessary) but the motors are usually used intermittently so do not normally overheat and are pretty well sealed, I've never had water etc. in my motor (winch that is). They will take a lot of stick and are normally quicker to fit.

Martin

Reply to
Oily

I've not seen a Trifor, does it need three people to use it? :-) A Tirfor on the other hand is slow and unecessary hard work but it will never break down or have a flat battery. Storage is the problem if you have a lot of cable on it and is not as quick and easy to use. No way would I go back to using a Tirfor, alright if I couldn't afford anything else. Hardly needs any maintenance though, other than cleaning.

Martin

Reply to
Oily

I have, several times, once pulling a 4.5 tonne tractor up the side of a hill, now I'll avoid using one if at all possible and use a vehicle, rope and snatch blocks, my 100W efforts are puny compared with a 2 tonne 100hp 4wd.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

Yes I had a Turner engine driven winch which was converted to hydraulic drive on an s3. It used the standard LR drum winch hydraulic tank fitted behind the rear offside wheel, pump was driven off the pto. The winch had to be mounted forward and above the original position to make room for the hydraulic motor. This added to noseweight and length and wouldn't have been at all pedestrian friendly.

The winch was strong and highly controllable but slow, always requiring fast tickover in 4th. There was no way it could be synchronised with forward speed so it was very inconvenient for self recovery.

Done again I'd have the pump directly engine driven off a (removable) fan belt and pay better attention to litres per minute versus line speed.

I have no experience of milemarker using the power steering pump (none of my LRs have had power steering other than a RR) but don't see how it could contribute enough power.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

My feelings exactly.

Reply to
EMB

You fail to mention how sodding slow a tirfor is either.

Reply to
EMB

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