Which year, '03 or '98, Cobra is easiest/hardest to modify?

This is just a guideline.. but take it as you will. I believe the '03's have subframe connectors and other frame bracing stock, but essentially anything that can be done chassis-wise can be done to either car with about the same hassle.

Modifications to a 96-98 Cobra are limited because of the compression and cast internals. Blown Cobras in this range are kinda rare because they usually end up popping quickly. There are some people who have thousands and thousands of miles and hundreds of dragstrip passses on a blown stock DOHC of these years, and there are others who put the 6psi kit on their car and blew it up on the way home from the dyno-tuning session. I'm thinking some 4.10 gears (these engines will rev to 7k and keep pulling the whole way) and maybe even a shot of nitrous. Still haven't determined if the stock internals will take that occasional abuse yet. Transmission is the weak-kneed T-45, and doesn't take much abuse before it starts telling you it wants another 2nd gear synchro. These cars can be made fast with the stock long block though... there are guys running in the high 11's with a stripped down car, gears, ported intake, CAI, and exhaust. Never even opened the cam covers. Note that I do mean "stripped down" car.

Modifications to an '03 Cobra aren't quite as limited, and you're also offered a substantially stronger platform to start with. The T-56 is a stronger transmission with two overdrives to help gas mileage. Cars with a Lightning blower pulley, exhaust, and a chip have been dynoed around

500rwhp. Cars with the Kenne Bell blower on it are even bigger. Basically, modding these cars comes down to just that... blower swap/pulley change... exhaust... chip... gears... and then whatever else you want to do to the chassis. From everything I've heard (I don't own one of these unfortunately so I can't help you much), it doesn't take a lot to get the car into the 11's and still be able to hit the twisties. If you're looking for a Corvette killer, this is probably the way to go. In the end, you'll probably spend more money trying to get a '98 Cobra to even run with an '03 Cobra than you would just buying the '03.

Me personally, I think if my '97 ever gives up the ghost, I might just swap an '03 Cobra driveline in it and call it a day. ;-)

JS

Okay, the '03 is an obvious choice, but I was only considering the '98 simply because it's cheaper. Not sure how I feel about a $400+ payment each month, but then I'm afraid if I bought a '98, I'd regret not getting an '03. What to do????? And maybe a '98 is enough for me??? I don't really know. I mean would I REALLY use all the power an '03 has to offer??? Well, not on the street. It's just nice to know you've got the best, I guess. :-)

Thanks, Michael.

Cindy

Now that sweetens the deal. Are they welded or bolted in?? Anybody know??

Hm. That doesn't make me wanna go out and buy one tomorrow. LOL

I'm thinking

I'm not overly efficient with a manual as I'm so used to an automatic, so there would be little if any abuse for quite a while. After I'm familiar with the car, however, I can't make any guarantees. ;-)

These cars can be made fast with the stock

I'm not into ripping my car apart, so that's not an option. I only go the strip occasionally.

Is the stock ride height of the '03 as high as the '98?

From everything I've heard (I don't own one of these unfortunately

That's pretty sad. I think I need to drive both cars soon. We're going to San Francisco next Monday for a Metallica concert and on the way home the next day we're going to test drive an '03 and '98 if we can find one.

Heh. If I had access to one I'd do the same thing, I think.

Thanks, JS!

Cindy

I think Micheal and JS covered most of my thoughts. Here are a few others :).

The '98 is lighter and has a solid axle. These are plusses if you are into performance contests based on hard launches :). The IRS on the '03 is satisfactory for everything but that and it will take some beefing up to make it a decent drag performer. However, I think the cost to do so is a pretty small increment compared to fixing the weaknesses in the '98's motor to make the same power as an '03.

If you build the '98 up to the same power levels in a bullet-proof fashion the weight will become less of an issue but the '98 will still have an edge. The IRS is heavier and the cast iron block of the '03 motor is heavier. Also, you could make that kind of power on a built aluminum blocked '98 using a air-to-air intercooled system, which will be lighter than the air-to-liquid system that the '03 uses.

What exactly are you saying when you state that the '03's "are exactly what [you] are looking for performance-wise"? Are you speaking about it's stock performance or its potential performance? And what kind of performance?

The reason I ask is if you are looking for a car that is streetable, reliable, and makes about 400 rwhp, the '98 can beat the '03 in terms of cost and relative performance at that power output. I believe, with care and proper tuning, that the pre-'03's are quite capable of making 400 rwhp and surviving many, many happy miles. Yep, there are risks of catastrophe but even '03 motors burn down occasionally so it's not too bad, really. The '98 will have an edge on every kind of track except a long road course and there is plenty of inexpensive gear to solve that.

If you are looking for eventually making big numbers from a very reliable package, like in the 500 rwhp range, the '03 wins. I won't claim that's streetable (I think it is but you have drive something like that for awhile to know if *you* think so :) ), but it will be pretty reliable with proper care and tuning and it will have potential for still more. It's rear end weakness can also be fixed for relatively little money.

The last question that I have is how much time do you want to spend working with the car? Even a mild 400 rwhp '98 is going to take planning and TLC. It's going to require someone's effort to get the stuff on to make that power, more effort to tune it, and slightly more effort to keep her happy and safe. An '03 can make 400 rwhp with one or two simple (hand tools and jack stands on the driveway) bolt-ons and no tuning. It will drive happy and safely for a long tim with little more than regular maintenance.

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

If you are the type to just enjoy the ride, then the '98 will be just fine. I had a 98 Cobra and enjoyed it, but it was on the verge of payment issues and aftermarket part funding issues. You will always want to do that. And the tire issues. I never could make them last.

But to just drive and have fun, it is more than enough.

I can't say I will use either car for dragging or autocrossing predominantly, as I like to do both, but am I to understand that a '98 would take less work to bring it up to speed in autocross than it would be to beef up the '03 for drags? Not considering the engine, just the suspension.

Yes, but at what price?

Stock.

Power and handling. Hell, let's face it, anything's gotta handle better than my '96, and power wise, I'd probably grin from ear to ear with either year Cobra.

Yeah, I seem to recall there was a problem with the '03's. What was it??

The '98

With the lower monthly payment I'd have plenty left over to fix its weaknesses. Score 1 for the '98. ;-)

Part of the appeal of the '03, for me, is that it's...new. I haven't owned a new Mustang or new car period since 1997! No squeaks or rattles. Ah, heaven! I'm sure if I got an '03 I'd be more than happy with its stock performance for many years. The only thing I'd probably change is exhaust and wheels, maybe gears. Do they have subframe connectors from the factory, btw??

As long as it takes. With my '96 I have spent two years on it and it's not much improved from what it was when I bought it four years ago. But I also made a lot of mistakes that I don't plan on making again. The only reason I stuck with this car for so long is I loved it. However it was like fighting a losing battle, where performance is concerned.

Even a mild 400 rwhp '98 is going to take planning and TLC.

Well. That's a lot of information to process. heh heh. But I thank you for your response. You've given me much to think about. I'm at least driving an '03 next Tuesday, so when I find a '98 I'll have something to compare it to.

Thanks again, Dan!

Cindy

Cindy... when you test drive an 03 Cobra.... better bring along a buttload of self control. You're going to wanna buy an 03 Cobra whether you have the money or not after you test drive one =D.

-Mike

Well, I am assuming from your statement you've got experience in AX? The reason I ask is because most AX and road course instructors I know will tell you to keep a Mustang as close to stock as possible while learning to drive fast. The Mustang is forgiving, if slow, and will allow you to train out bad habits early. You will also discover first hand what you need to do to make the car go faster. Also, especially in AX events, even simple things like subframe connectors suddenly throw you into modified and prepped classes that you might not be prepared for right now. In this case, with either car, you probably don't have to do anything right away.

If you already know that, then forgive me :). Beyond that, you can tweak the '98 for lateral handling all the way to fully race prepping it. Tweaks would be putting gear on to settle the rear end and stiffer springs and shocks/struts and I think that runs typically about $2.5k installed. But not all that needs to be done at the same time or at all, so that number is very fluid.

For drag racing, the '03 has wheel hop and weak halfshafts. With close to stock power on street tires, even drag radials, keeping the launches mellow, it should be fine. However, if you want good short times, and/or your want to run more power, the IRS needs bushings, springs, and halfshafts. About a grand or so total, installed.

So, short answer is that it depends: it *could* cost less to make the '98 road race/AX ready, it could cost more :).

Well, a built SHM 4.6 Cobra shortblock plus centrifugal supercharger is around $8k. That's just the obvious parts :). Depending on who does the work, that could easily double before your done. There's about a grand of wiggle room on the top end based on who build the motor, SHM is notoriously expensive stuff, but good.

True :). Handling-wise, unless you've got a lot of hard core seat time, I'll bet you couldn't tell the difference between the '98 and the '96. The '03 is noticably heavier in the nose. It's not uncomfortable but it's there. You'll feel it right away. The car is still plenty agile and I, personally, like the IRS.

The failures I know of personally were all because of poor tunes or fuel delivery interruption under boost. There are a couple of weird failures on one of the web forums but after following them for a while my gut says they were abuse/racing cases trying to cheat a warranty repair from Ford.

There are a couple of issues, they are rare but they are good to be aware of. There is "the tick", which is a hot engine tick eminating from the head, there is an alignment pull and there is a drive train vibration. None of these are rapant and the last two are easy to fix. The tick is annoying but I've seen no evidence that it's anything but annoying. Ford will replace the head if requested but there's been no failure related to this and there are a bunch of these cars pushing between 600 rwhp and 1000 rwhp to the ground. Also, there is more than one tick. I have had two. One was fixed with a cam tower re-torque. The other is piston slap on cold startup. Neither is really all that big a deal, and like I said, they are rare.

True :).

The 'vert does. The coupe does not.

I understand completely :).

No problem.

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

The '98 Cobra has the same suspension components as the '96-98 GTs did, with a slightly stiffer sway bar. The handling probably isn't that much better than your GTS, Cindy. The '03, on the other hand, has revised shock and strut valving as well as different spring rates (in part to cover for the heavier cast iron block, also to make the car handle better) as well as the IRS.

I was under the assumption (I read somewhere in the pre-production press) that the car could twist itself up badly enough that Ford decided to install the subs even on the hardtop cars. That could be wrong obviously as it was pre-production... but I figured with 390hp on tap, they'd want to do something to stiffen up the 25+ year old chassis.

As an added thought now that I'm awake... as everyone else is saying in here, a '98 Cobra will be a fun car to tool around in. I have my '97 and definately like to drive it a lot. I've taken it to the drags and am thinking about AX at some point. The car's bone stock and performs fairly well from the factory, but compared to an '03, I don't think it would hold a candle.

If you're going to be happy with performance that's a bit higher than your GT (more horses, bigger brakes, *marginally* better handling) than go with the '98 and throw a few bucks at it with the money you save on the initial investment.

Definately test drive both of them. If you were closer to me (I'm on the East Coast)... I'd let you take mine out for a romp or two.

JS

if you really want to get a lot out of it you need to get the 03. First of all you start out at 400+ hp stock. second; this engine is built rock-solid. Forged pistons, manley rods, steel block... Very very strong. With minor mods this thing will spit out 500 hp hands down. Swap in a kenne bell and we're at 700 hp This thing GOES.

for the 98, well if you did not want to mod it anymore and were happy with the 305 hp I'd say go for it and save the money. It's definetely a great car as well. Just don't add a blower because you can easily destroy it.

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And heavy. But that doesn't bother me. :-p

Holy... Stop, you're killin' me.

So I've been told. I won't know until I drive a '98, which hope to do next week. Who knows, it may be all I'm looking for. I'm not an overly aggressive driver and I only drag and autox occasionally.

Cindy

Not so much. I took a course in it last year, which was alot of fun. I can't wait to go back!

The

Yes, that is what I was told. I found that course to be very educational. Until I swung my car around a hair pin turn at 40 mph, I thought I could drive pretty well.

The Mustang is forgiving, if slow, and will allow you to train out bad

Right. Well, the autox events here are pretty tame so I'm not too worried. I do seem to remember being asked if I had any suspension mods to my car before the course started.

In this case, with either car,

That's good to know. Looks like I better find a '98 to drive in the Bay Area when we're down there 'cause it looks like my car's gonna sell soon!!

I sort of knew that but don't worry about it. :-)

Beyond that, you can tweak the

Fair enough. :-)

notoriously

Which is why I can't imagine spending that much. I don't have access to great amounts of cash usually, but who knows.

I'm sure you're right there.

The '03 is

I'm looking forward to driving one.

Oh, I see.

Hm, not sure I like that. Knowing my luck, I'd get all the above. ;-)

Are they really bolted on?? Do you find them to be effective at all?

Cindy

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I'll retract that. I don't know if the coupe does. I'll have to look at one tomorrow at the shop :).

[snip that]

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

[snippage]

I doubt it, really :).

[more snippage]

Yes, the stock subframe connectors are really bolted on and they are pathetic. I'm sure they add some small amount of stiffness but a decent set of welded SFC's is still one of the best first mods.

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

Don't get me wrong. If money is somewhat tight and you still want to drive something sporty that has above average performance (beat 95% of the cars out there) this definetely is a great car to get.

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