I'm getting ready to drop my 2.0 type4 out of my 914 and wanted to know if anyone had insight to what I'll need for an engine stand while I rebuild it. I was looking at a $40 750lbs stand at AutoZone which looks pretty good. It needs rubber casters for my floor though.
Will the standard universal adapter work to hold my motor sturdy while working? I have seen VW/Porsche stand adapter rings going for $150, but do I really need one? Is there someone who is selling a homemade ring adapter cheap?
The way these engines are designed, I have found it best to just lay it on a workbench without a stand. They are flat at the bottom, and light enoough to turn and flip over by hand, on a tabletop. Thge engine stands only complicate things, and you can't use one when assembling the case anyway, because the case itself is a two-piece design, splitting in the middle.
"normal" engines (all that watercooled crap) don't have a natural flat surface to stand on, so they need a stand.
...they are definitely light enough for two people fully dressed...or if you strip to longblock one person. I do generally lift it down from the five gallon bucket I mantle it up from long bloct stage to turnkey on and set it on the floor jack by myself (usually faster to install without helpers in teh way so I try to tell anyone offering to help that I am doing the install one day later than the day I actually plan the instal...lol) but I really can't reccomend that *most* people carry a mantled motor themselves. I am 250pounds and do physical labor for 12 hour shifts...not that I am in good shape...I'm not. However, I can likely lift more than many people who sit behind a desk for a living without hurting myself too severely.
More like 246 pounds! I used a T1 bench mount ($20) welded to a Northern Tools ($30) rolling universal stand. I hooked the bolts to the one half and it works fine --- takes two to get it up on stand and back down (unless you stripped it on the ground).
Once you have it on the floor, your biggest problem is the dimensions. Hard to lift it alone, but 2 guys would lift it easy. Yes it's heavy too. Forgot the numbers. But you can, and should, remove the fan shroud, generator, exhaust system, heat exchangers and most other big heavy external parts first, while it's still on the floor. You will need to break the big flywheel bolt free too while the engine is on the floor. Yank it out before lifting the engine on the bench, saves you quite a bit of weight.
Once you have all the external parts removed (heads and valve covers remain intact) the lump is fairly easy to lug around and lift for one person.
Oh yea, drain the oil before dropping the engine..
I know Max, but I feel that this doesn't provide enough support. All the weight is concentrated on two spots, instead of four bolts and a large continuous flange that rests against the tranny mounting surface, like it was designed to be supported. (The mating surface has a step machined to it for additional support and weight distribution.)
I know it's been done "forever" like you show in the picture, and it usually works ok. But I dont like it, the risk of ruining a case is too big.
1) That is a much better answer than the original. What you have is an opinion and you have now stated it as such. The original statement was framed as fact and was incorrect.
2) This thing we've been doing forever may not be as dangergous as you think. There are a number of illustrations in the 1961-1965 Bentley (Workshop Manual) showing various assembly / disassembly steps in which the engine is supported in exactly this way. This example is from page M-9, 5 showing removal of the flywheel.
http://66.225.214.60/misc/scan.jpg Tom Wilsons "How to Rebuild..." book shows this in numerous places as well.
3) On the other hand, the cheap engine supports you get nowadays are very marginal. I felt the need to reinforce mine after I saw it bending from the weight of the engine. It's much more stable now. Would I actually start the engine supported this way? No. I built a substantial test stand for that. But I think a two bolt mount will hold the static weight of a type-1 long block just fine.
4) I also think the ability to rotate the assembly through 360º makes many operations easier. I would rather be above my work than beside or under it. For me, placing a head onto a pair of cylinders while trying to keep four pushrod tubes in place is easier if the head is being lowered from above. Checking valve-train geometry, tapping oil galley plugs. All seem to go more smoothly when the work can be oriented properly.
I bought two bench stands for 22.00 each from so. cal Imports. I mounted one on the bench. I purchased a cheap 750lb engine stand for
30.00, cut the top tube, pounded it into a flat piece, drilled 4 holes into it and mounted the second bench stand on it. I have two engine mounts, one mobile, one stationary for about $75.00. They worked great getting one engine stripped and building the second one at the same time. If you click on below, the first two pictures show the one engine on the roller stand.......Dennis
I think I have a near perfect engine stand set up my bench mount stand is bolted to a large wooden crate less then a meter off the floor. I use a Snap-on roller chair when I'm building the engines(very comfortable). When I'm done building to turnkey I can use a floor jack to take it off, from stand to in the car with out having to lift once.
I agree with the benefits, but personally I just wouldn't trust a two bolt support. Once you have the case together, go ahead and use the stand, and all four bolts to secure the shortblock in place. From there all you said is dead on. Up UNTIL there, you have a very manageable lump of a case to work with, on the workbench. I have drilled 8 holes for head studs on all of my assembly tables, so I can place the case on it's side even when the studs are all in place. They just go through the table.
If someone saw a picture of an engine being built on a stand, supported only by two bolts, he might think it's ok to finish the whole engine like that. Adding more and more weight on it until you had almost doubled the weight. (Forgetting that you should use the four bolts when it becomes possible).
I just dont see why anyone should risk cracking or bending the case if it could be easily avoided. I've been building these things for 16 years, and never needed an engine stand. I bought one 2 years ago, and this summer I gave it to a friend. Used it two times, in both cases it was a watercooled inline 4 banger. I tried using it in a beetle engine rebuild, but I just didnt see any benefits compared to my normal way of doing things.
This I wanted to bring to attention to those readers who might still think it is a "must" to get an engine stand of some sort for the VW aircooled engine. It isn't.
I took an old, worn out transaxle case, gutted it, mounted it to a grocery shopping cart, and made a movable engine stand that, with a battery, and a starter attached to the trans, and fuel tank from an old lawnmower, I can start the finished engine, and roll it around the garage. After a few attempts of an engine trying to roll itself out of the garage, I got some lockable caster wheels from a roll-away toolbox, mounted them, and now I can lock the stand in place. Not including the starter and the battery, I have way less than
20 bucks in the whole affair. I use a two-bolt engine stand to get the engine to the point that the rods are hanging out of the case, then I finish the engine on the "start stand".
When it is left in my driveway, for 4 weeks, despite repeated calls to the phone number that was on the cart for free pickup, yes, it was free. I tried to do the right thing, and get it back to the appropriate Grocery Store, but they never came and got it, and I began to look at it, and the old swingaxle center section with a broken pinion bearing housing in the garage, and.... ;-) There isn't actually much left of the original cart, just the bottom framework, the rear casters, and a few pieces of tubing I used to make uprights to hold the trans case... next time when I call, they better take less than a month to come get their cart- I have had a couple of people ask me to make them one, and when I said no, they took matters into their own hands and made their own from shopping carts that they "acquired", somehow....
Next thing you hear is Dave rigging up a chain drive to the rear wheels from the crank... and asking Shaggie to help him fab a rebar front steering linkage... :D
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