New VWs vs Old (Rant)

too stupid to acknowledge that times

I agree with what you say. I would rather have seen VW address quality issues in their present line rather than branch out into luxury and SUV markets. I also think they would have been better off focusing on a low priced car, like the original beetle rather than the luxury end. Something to compete on the low end rather than the high end.

As for "easy to maintain cars", I think you could put any car name in place of VW and say the same thing. Cars have changed and the knowledge and tools needed to fix them has evolved to a point where many/most shade tree mechanics are lost. I don't like it, but it isn't just a VW thing.

Let's not forget that VW *does* have cheaper cars - the Lupo and the Polo. If they though that those cars would actually sell in the US, they could bring them here. The fact that they don't bring them over would tend to indicate that they don't think they'll sell.

-- Mike Smith

1. I agree that VW suffers from major model-creep. The next move of a well-run company is to offer a new cheap model as they did with the Fox in

1987 when the Jetta first started growing.

1. I'm putting my money on the Chinese in the next 2 decades filling in the economy niche. The Koreans are making a good go at it now, and I would not be surprised if they approached Toyota quality soon.

2. VW believes they are giving the people what they want. They maximize profits by throwing high-margin options at customers who intend to keep the car ~3 years. Where is the incentive for making a car that will run 300k miles?

1. Their marketing is also a large factor in their decline,imho. Most of the men driving are either vaguely effeminate or driving around with kids. Gone are the days of the Speed Racer GTI ads or Fahrvergnugen. They decided there were more potential buyers who care nothing about the fun-to-drive factor and just want to go 45 mph to soccer games and 'feel safe'. uughhh

2. It is just a cold fact of nature that more and more components must be replaced rather than fixed, that there will be decreasing amounts of things one can fix in your garage. Ultimately, this should mean greater longevity, efficiency, and lower cost of ownership.

regards, KL

They wouldn't sell because of America's love of the SUV. I still don't understand the need for a 5000 lb 4x4 vehicle (they're basically trucks folks) when all they're used for is shuttling kids to and from sports/dance/lessons/(insert activity here) and trips to the mall. I don't live anywhere near any dirt roads and I can't remember the last time I needed to cross a stream or muddy trail in my travels so it never occurred to me to buy one of those behemoths. In a world where the U.S. already uses the largest portion of all the refined gasoline produced in the world (which adds to the list of reasons why other countries hate us) is it really a good idea to buy a vehicle that gets 10 MPG while going about our mundane errands?

If there are any marketing droids listening : I'd buy the Polo with the 3 cylinder TDI. I'd even trade in my A3 GTI VR6 on it! I still like my GTI, but I really just need something economical and dependable for those days when I can't ride my motorcycle.

That and something comparable to a CRX would be great for the wife and kid. I don't need or want a Tuareg and I simply loathe the '99 Eurovan we have now. It's a pain to work on and it's always got something wrong with it.

Back to the original topic : Amen, Ron ! My wife and I loved our '88 & '92 Foxes. Ditto the '91 Jetta 2-door. The '98 GTI is a lot of fun, but not easy to work on. The '99 Eurovan is a PITA.

My friends and family are shocked that I'm th> Let's not forget that VW *does* have cheaper cars - the Lupo and the

And how large are these children anyway? Why people think they need such a BIG vehicle for small people I don't know.

well-run company is to offer a new cheap model as they did with the Fox in

1987 when the Jetta first started growing.

The Fox (or something similar to it) should never have left the VW lineup. VW needs a light, fun-to-drive, and well-made entry level car now. Golfs are nice but they've gone upmarket enough to warrant a $12K car in VW's lineup.

the economy niche. The Koreans are making a good go at it now, and I would not be surprised if they approached Toyota quality soon.

I kinda doubt we'd see a Chinese car in the US anytime soon, but the Koreans are indeed finally learning. Hyundai especially is finally getting it right with the Elantra, Sonata, XG, and Santa Fe. (Not sure about the Accent though...that still looks and feels like a cheap car...it hardly looks any better or bigger (actually looks smaller to me) than the old Excels that it replaces.)

To some degree, they really are. Passats and Jettas, though aging in the lineup, are still selling well. The problem is that there isn't something for everybody in VW's lineup.

intend to keep the car ~3 years. Where is the incentive for making a car that will run 300k miles?

Actually I do believe that today's VWs will still last that long. I think the basic engine will last to at least 200K. Problem is, everything else on the car will nickel and dime you to death (power windows, CELs, electrical issues, etc.).

the men driving are either vaguely effeminate

Uh.....huh? What's that got to do with anything?

or Fahrvergnugen.

The current "Drivers Wanted" is nothing more than two words...and it's a very tired slogan that needs replacing after how many years now? About 8 or so? Wasn't that slogan around since the mid 90s?

fun-to-drive factor and just want to go 45 mph to soccer games and 'feel safe'. uughhh

I don't know about that. I think the marketing is still about fun to drive, but it's less obvious than it used to be and it does need a freshening.

This is a funny discussion. My first VW required a floor jack and less than an hour to remove the engine to change a clutch. It requred special tools like a long breaker bar and a 36mm socket to fix the rear brakes. I was nervous about getting a water cooled with fuel injection and I heard they had a reputation for AC problems. The my

1980 worked fairly well but I suspect the first owner let the oil level run low as the cylinders had some nasty scuffs up and down the cyliners that a light hone did not clean up. AC acted up twice, once when the radiator fan lost its connection and once when the condesor cracked by a fitting. The 84 did better. I replaced a reciever/dryer when I bought it used and fixed a bad radiator fan connection and it was still blowing out cold air 10 years later. Now the new VW has a computer for the seatbalts and airbag which also does doors and alarm, a computer for the engine management and who knows what other things. Every car gets scarrier to own as I cannot find points and a condensor under the hood. On the other hand oil changes are more than 3 times longer but oil is 3 times more expensive, spark plugs last 50,000 plus miles instead of 10,000 miles, brakes can last a lot longer and abs really works.

Jim B.

It's the "bigger is better" theory that is killing this country. Bigger houses, bigger cars, bigger people. It's only now that we're starting to feel the same pinch at the gas pump that our European counterparts have for decades. Here in the Northeast most of the communities have grown into subdivisons with 4000 and 5000 sq ft houses (on quarter-acre lots no less) with two (or three if junior's of age to drive) SUVs in the driveway. It's the new American dream.... The sense of entitlement people have nowadays is incredible.

Yeah, I still wish VW would bring a smaller chassis over here though. I love the 1.8T drivetrain but the smallest car you can get it in is an A4 Golf...? Can you imagine how fast that would be in a Rabbit or Scirocco? it's not like they don't have cars like that, there are 2 smaller chassis sold in other markets... :(

nate

Not at all, there are lots of people that share your views. Unfortunately there are no fun cars aimed at us, unless you consider a Prius or a Civic hybrid "fun." Personally I'm hanging on to my current DD (an old Porsche 944) until the wheels fall off, or someone offers a new, affordable alternative that doesn't look like s**t in comparison.

nate

R> They wouldn't sell because of America's love of the SUV. I still don't

still got my old hickok tube tester in the attic somewhere.

As far as what you said about dickle and dime expenses - they need to address this at their North American supplier or assembly plants I think... I have a German built 99.5 Golf TDI - no trim problems like our 2003 Golf has, no radio problems like my friends 2003 Golf had, the MIL light has NEVER came on in the life of this car, after 5 years and 103K Kms the car squeaks less then my friends 2003 Golf (our 2003 is still "new" no squeaks yet)... The MAF and window regs affected us all... other then that, nothing has gone wrong with my car, or the other 3 German built VW's that were bought at the same time as mine (all company cars, I bought mine from the company - it was that good).

I drive the snot out of this car day in and out, it doesn't burn oil/leak oil, it uses around 6.3L per 100kms of fuel, the automatic tranny, even thru all the abuse I put it thru doesn't slip, shift roughly, and the fluid came out unburnt... i've replaced the sway bar bushings.... I didn't even realize they were going until I felt how much better the car tracked/cornered, tires, front brakes, and shocks (lot of driving on rough roads, and carrying heavy loads)

I don't know where you live, but around my part of the world, I see an awful lot of Kias, Hyundais, and other cheap cars. As for VW's ability to judge what sells, go ask your local dealer how many w8s he sold, of how much interest their has been in the Phaeton.

Well, where I live, you're as likely to see an A6 as you are a Kia, if not more so. Then again, maybe that's just because the A6 is more likely to grab my attention... ;-)

-- Mike Smith

I didn't mean to say that I only see cars at the low end of the cost scale, but I do see a lot of them. There is a market, and I think it is bigger than the one for a $70,000 VW.

The "German made" designation in this post caught my eye, and I was wondering if people have noticed a significant difference between VWs made in Germany and those made in Mexico?

I haven't. My '91 GTI came from Mexico and I don't think there's anything that went wrong that went wrong because it was built in Mexico. And of the current VWs, many are exported to Europe (New Beetles and I think also Jetta/Bora sedans (not 100% sure on that one...I know wagons come from Germany but not sure if most sedans come from Mexico or both Mexico and Germany) and of the people I know with Mex-made Jettas, they seem as well put together as a German car. Oddly, another buddy of mine has a '00 Golf that was made in Germany and he had quite a few issues with it before it all was sorted out by the dealer under warranty.

I think the way cars are globally designed made these days, it's pretty much impossible to make a generalization (ha! I just did!) about one country making them better than another.