A604-41TE Amsoil synthetic versus ATF+3 Mpoar 7176 ??

I never said you have any "influence over the internet", and you know it. I said *I think* you moderate a forum somewhere. I suppose I could have added the word may, but a reasonable person, could see I was not stating I knew such was the case.

Your saying you had *blocked* fwd_mopabuku did make me wonder though, if you had BLOCKED him from appearing on an entire forum. I mean, usually the brats say something like this, when they bozo filter someone. "YOU ARE ON IGNORE BUDDY! Nya Nya Nya Nya NYAAAA", ad nauseum etc.

By saying you blocked him you made me wonder though. That is why I did a Google WEB search on this thread. It was then I discovered that, YEP, this thread has indeed been censored in many automotive forums. Just as I said earlier.

Just curious.

Under the censorship criteria you operate by, have you also filtered Sternn, Pffeifer, Steve B and David, for repeatedly attacking others and ditorting their words? Have you considered bozo filtering your own posts?

I noticed you blocked fwd_mopabuku. From what I can see though, he is only guilty of allowing guys like I just mentioned, to get him angry for reapeatedly baiting him.

Do you bozo the idiots who go off topic, purposely distort my words, bait me, and falsely claim I sell Amsoil? I mean since as you confess, "AS Godlike as I would like to be", wouldn't being fair and even handed be more "Godlike"? Or is it just the power you enjoy?

Please get this.

Only a fool would try to sell Amsoil to DCX shills, or try to convince close minded idiots, to rethink their unreasoning prejudices.

I know that is not what I came here for. I just know that this thread will be forever archived, and made available for search engines. I want consumers to know the truth about the DCX ATF scam. That's all.

Don't forget to filter me out also. If you haven't already done so.

So far you guys have helped the cause tremendously, by being so transparently duplicitous, hypocritical, and unfalteringly irrational.

Thank you, all of you, so very very much.

LOL

I am a she not a he. Obviously you haven't even read my posts, and so you do not even know what you are talking about.

I am not an Amsoil sales person.

Maybe you are telling the truth, and you are not a racist. You are however clearly a bigot. Because obviously you have a penchant for making broad sweeping value judgments about others, based upon faulty stereotypes, regrading what areas people live in. How very Daimler of you.

You are clearly a jerk who does not think before he speaks. I suppose it is fair to presume that you are not a DCX public relations officer. Then again, I suppose it really isn't, is it.

ROTFL!

OH GOD.

That was a good one.

Thanks!

I have to get back to work now.

Dig ya later discriminator!

ROTFLH

OHH GOD

But our point is that your point is incorrect.

Wrong again.

And you have no data to support his assertion. It may be true, but you certainly have given no evidence that it is true.

Given the number of people buying Toyota's now to get better quality, I really doubt that any auto maker would knowingly shorten the life of their vehicles and encourage even more defections. However, believe whatever conspiracy theory suits your fancy.

I don't know if it is snake oil or not, but I do know that it isn't suitable for Chrysler transmissions that specify ATF+4.

Matt

Do you really need to post everything twice? Reading your drivel once is more than enough. However, at least you are consistent. Your knowledge or newsreader operation matches your knowledge of ATF.

:-)

Matt

I don't care if you're a woman or not. But on purely technical grounds, you're "any sythetic has to be better than a semi-synthetic" argument aint got no balls, that much is certain.

Hi Matt,

I respect your caution about upgrading to a full synthetic ATF. God knows these trannys are very sensitive to fluid requirements, and everyone who has ever put Dexron Mercon in by mistake, or believed some idiot at a trans repair shop who said it was OK to put it in, "as long as a friction modifier like Lube-guard is added", immediately had TC shudder and slippage. Such would require an immediate full system flush, a new MOPAR filter (not a close but no cigar knockoff), and a complete refill with MOPAR ATF +3. All true.

I know how you feel. The data. The data. Think about this though. How long were DCX's own TSB's on fluid (Trans OIL) for the A604 confusing and open to interpretation? I think their data is too often just profit driven bunkum.

All I can tell you is this. I have had great results with full synthetic ATF in my A604. I knew right off I had done the right thing because it performs far better.

It shifts way faster and firmer on WOT, like a properly installed shift kit would afford, and it shifts down perfectly too. Yet when driving "normal" with smooth light even acceleration, you can NOT feel it shift at all. I mean way waaaaay smoother than it did even when brand new. If the friction characteristics were not up to snuff, it wouldn't be able to do that, and you know it.

It runs much cooler now too, both in stop and go traffic in hot weather, and when taking a beating on the highway. If the friction characteristics were off, it would heat up, even if I really was too stupid to sense if was slipping, or the shift timing was off.

You know how these 4 speeds were designed to hang onto one gear while grabbing another, so they would have that "grocery getter smoothness", and how this means friction heat buildup. As you may know already. This is why a good shift kit can extend the life of these babies, IF DONE RIGHT. Yeah yeah yeah. I know. Most people can't install a shift kit right. Or they chose the wrong one and just wind up creating problems. But you know the idea behind getting one. Well now my A604 performs just as I told you above.

I believe that this full synthetic enables the A604 to actually perform as it was intended to by the designers. In other words. I think they are a great design, and really the old ATF +3 was just not up to the job. Not really. You had to baby them to get a decent life span out of them, by avoiding WOT and driving conservatively.

But for far too many people, over many years, [there is plenty of data on that!] driving conservatively and using only Mopar 7176 +3, Mopar filters and following their fluid & filter change schedule, did not get them the lifespan of the 3 speeds, and other car manufacturers transmissions.

Thousands of complaints over the years by A604 owners has given it bad reputation. But it wasn't the design. It was the ATF. The fact that DCX is pushing their new semi synthetic +4, only proves they knew it too. The A604/41Te4 design is a marvel! It was ahead of it's time, IF you used Mopar 7176 +3, but not if you were using one of the full synthetics.

Honestly Matt. Full synthetics like Redline C+ and Amsoil ATF have been around a lot longer than Mopar +4. Those who for years have been using these full synthetics in their's, with great results, have all along been denounced as liars trying to peddle snake oil though. It is a MYTH that only Mopar ATF should be used.

True, Mopar +4 is better than their old +3, but it is only a semi synthetic. It is a far less robust than a 100% full synthetic. I use it in my A604, for the same reasons that I use Mobil 1 in my engine.

I swear to you I don't sell the stuff Matt. In fact if I were you, I would go with the Redline C+, because they have a better reputation, and lots of race teams wont use anything else. I only have experience with Amsoil ATF though, and I do know from experience that it is great stuff. So personally I would buy Amsoil again.

I trust Valvoline pretty much. I mean they do have a reputation to uphold, and there are liability issues, but they say they have a +4. I don't know if it is just a copy of Mopar's semi synthetic +4 or not though. I suggest you try one of the full synthetics.

Or you can believe the myths. Like if you disconnect the air box on a Chrysler/MMC 3.0 and use a CAI instead, then your computer will burn up! People believed that myth for years. But experience, seat of the pants data not driven by profit, my own included, proves that to be untrue. It's the same with this ATF issue Matt.

Steviepoo,

Some of us still call the 41Te4 (not "41Te" as you said by the way) A604's out of habit, because we have been Chrysler owners a little longer.

One more thing Stevie. You really can be a nasty bitchy little whiner. So I don't know if you are really a *man* or not. Balls *or* no balls.

Can anyone read this last post and tell me that could possibly be a girl as claimed? No female expresses herself like this. Try reading the post as a woman speaking to you - it's impossible - the voice keeps switching to a man. The poster is a guy an "im-poster".

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Thinking it is doesn't make it so.

It performs differently, but that may not be better.

That isn't consistent. The same clutches are shifting at low throttle and WOT. If the fluid is slipperier allowing smoother (i.e., more clutch slippage during shifting) shifts are low throttle, it will also allow smoother shifts at WOT. Think about it...

How do you know? I haven't seen a production car with a transmission temp gauge in eons.

A shift kit and a fluid change aren't comparable at all. A fluid change won't give the benefits of a shift kit.

You believe a lot, but know very little. How do you know what the designers intended? Do you know any of them?

Three speeds, yes, other car manufacturers modern four+ speeds, no. Ford has had trouble with the Windstar, Honda with the Odyssey, even Toyota vans have had an inordinate amount of trouble with their new automatics early on. Most have been sorted out reasonably well by now, but they are simply packing more stuff into a fixed space then with the old three speeds and reliability has suffered, no argument there. However, most of the newer trannies are doing rather well. My 1996 Grand Voyager just turned 167,000 miles and is on the original 3.3L engine and four speed transmission.

Actually, it had some design/component materials problems that have since largely been addressed.

True. Do you not think that Chrysler engineers weren't aware of the available fluids when they designed the transmission? If they could have accomplished their design goals using a full synthetic do you not think they would have done so?

Not necessarily better, just appropriate for the transmission design in use today. I use Mobil 1 also, but engines and transmissions are totally different beasts. I can't think right off-hand of any part in an engine that doesn't benefit from less friction (once break-in has been accomplished). However, wet clutches are designed for a PARTICULAR amount of friction. Either more or LESS is bad. This isn't the case in an engine.

No, you think it is great stuff, you don't know that it is.

Why? I have 167,000 miles on +3 and my transmission still shifts just tine. I'd be nuts to change.

Not even close to being the same. You just believe a different myth.

Matt

Get help.

It is obvious you need to find a good shrink and sort your sexuality issues out.

Talk about insecurity. You take the cake. I am sure this isn't the first time someone has suggested this to you either.

Matt,

I guess I was pretty silly to think you actually wanted to discus this.

Obviously I was wrong though.

Have a good life.

Oh no! I'm so mortally wounded. I don't think I can ever get over it.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Besides, I'm not the one coming onto the internet as a cross-dresser.

(I know - don't feed the trolls!)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

What the hell is going on?

Right from the start I have been amazed at the level of animosity expressed here, toward anyone who points out, there are alternatives to Mopar ATF.

I mean it is really over the top! I have been accused of everything, from selling a particular brand of full synthetic ATF, to being a cross dresser!

What the hell is going on here? I just came here to give the Mopar guys a heads up.

I kept expecting someone who isn't crazy, to speak up and actually say something that made some sort of sense, but no way. In fact it just gets worse.

I just did a web search and looked around a bit.

I see someone even tried to start a Usenet group about Amsoil. It has been completely silenced by spam though. I also noticed that anyone who speaks positively about non Mopar ATF, in other forums, is treated the same damned way.

The very few posts which are not ludicrous rants, filled with ridiculous personal invective, are nothing more than doublespeak usually reserved for political propaganda.

The tactics of propaganda remain consistent. Anyone who says there are alternatives to Mopar ATF, is smeared by any means necessary. I am surprised I haven't been accused of being anti American also.

The man who developed Amsoil, pioneered both the development and production of, the very first synthetic automotive lubricants. That was long before Mobil 1, or any of the other synthetic oils available today. I really can't imagine why anyone would call snake oil. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Consider this. The entire concept of synthetic oil was denounced as snake oil, until BIG OIL got on board with it. So is there a connection between BIG OIL, and all the irrational hate and misinformation involved in this war against Amsoil? I don't know. It is enough to really make me wonder though.

Yep! It is one big conspiracy. Big oil companies at the Chrysler newsgroup trying to keep a lid on Scamsoil! You found us out. P.S. didn't you say goodbye, like 10 times already?

If you don't think some big corps don't do whatever it takes to stomp their competition, then you are either very naive, or just plain stupid.

what did you think would happen if you came to a chrysler group bashing thier favorite product? go to *any*group and bash what they are there about and see what you get. have you posted your.........whatever in the Ford or GM groups?

Well, wonder about the fact that you've been expressing yourself like a d*****ad........