Consumer Reports (300C)

I can verify that a Chrysler minivan gets lousy gas mileage in city driving, under 15mpg. On the highway it is not bad, 24 mpg.

------------- Alex

I believe people purchase SUVs for several reasons. First, the available 4WD or AWD. I know some minivans have AWD. Second, towing capability. I don't believe minivans can tow as much.

For me, I love my Expedition for the high ground clearance as I go four-wheeling seeking out abandoned Railroads or Right of ways (ROW) in addition to ghost towns. It's a history thing.

In addition to off-roading, the Expy seats 8 comfortably but access to the third row is not as easy as a Minivan.

Ken

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How true. Although in my case, I thought it was for lack of using the vehicle.

Ken

I've never had a Toyota, but the one's around here (PA/NY) rust just like all other cars. I had an 84 Honda Accord I bought new and the rotors on that rusted so bad that they couldn't be ground even once. They were trash after 4 years and 50,000 miles. My 89 Acclaim rotors lasted the life of the car (10 years and 143,000 miles when it was totaled).

Could be, but Toyota's in my neck of the woods rust as fast as any vehicle and the bodies rust faster than either Chryslers or GMs and about the same as Fords.

Matt

Actually, the suspension is the best looking part of an Aztec! :-)

Matt

I liked our 2001 300M. The main issue I had was tire/road noise -- just way too much for a flagship vehicle. That could have been resolved before the vehicle went into production.

The only other issue I had was that something would cause a low bearing-rattle sort of sound at a specific small rpm range just above idle -- right about 900-1200 rpm. (This started around 40k miles.) The noise would vanish at idle or above that range. Was louder when the engine was first cranked up and got quieter as it warmed up. Given that oil was changed religiously and always with Mobil 1, I don't think it was bearings, but who knows.

I had the *exact* same sound on the 1998 3.2L Intrepid ES we owned as the miles went on up into the 40k range. Really became embarrassing on winter mornings. I took that car to the deal several times and they could not really resolve it. On one visit they replaced one catalytic converter, and on the second visit they replaced the other one, thinking the monolith inside one or the other had come loose and was rattling just off idle. The last time I took it to them (a nice chilly January day so the rattle was loud) they replaced the PS pump and both pulleys (warranty), and the noise was then quieter but not gone. I was dismayed when I heard that same noise developing on the 300M.

Well, now that I think about it, the 300M's dash also developed an ugly crack when the car was just three years old despite using sunscreens when parked here in Florida -- would have cost well over $1000 to replace at the dealer. And across the four door arches at the headliner was some sort of trim-tape that delaminated from the metal on all four doors openings -- really looked bad -- would have cost $200 per door at the dealer. Those two things marred an otherwise absolutely beautiful interior.

Hmm, okay so I guess I had several issues with the car after all...

My wife and I test-drove a Town & Country -- it's a wonderful vehicle, like a luxurious limo. But we bought the '05 Durango. It really came down to realizing which one we'd simply prefer to drive every single day of the year. It's a matter of preference, but neither of us could quite see ourselves driving a minivan all the time. The Durango is also quieter overall; I think it's body-on-frame so the body's probably more isolated from tire/road noise and vibration. The 4.7L V8 is a decent engine for that vehicle.

I do wish they'd come up with a vastly quieter cooling fan for the Durango, though. The fan is fairly quick to go into nice quiet freewheeling mode but it will sure set up a hurricane sometimes whenever that clutch engages it. I'm pretty sure it has a separate electric fan that engages with A/C, and it's nowhere near as loud. I imagine the mechanical fan can probably move a lot more air but they could surely just make it quieter.

My father had a 2004 Saturn L300 station wagon. The cooling fan made the engine sound like a truck during the summer. What is wrong with these guys?

Were they rusted on the new car lot? Check under a new Pacifica at the dealer some time.

I should have been clearer in my post. The new Pacifica's suspensions are rusted on the dealer's lot. I think you will have to look hard to find another new car with that feature. Look at one from the rear next time.

Some suspension designs do look very ungainly to me.

A generation or two back, the Camry had that odd bent metal piece sticking down under the rear suspension. Used to think the owner had bent his suspension somehow till I noticed that they all were like that. Tacky.

Also I th>

Yes, most have a light coating of rust on the steel parts. Some parts have enough residual machining oil left to hold the rust at bay for a while, but this is temporary at best. Most suspension parts will outlast the rest of the vehicle even with the rust so painting or otherwise treating them is like putting lipstick on a pig. It may may you feel better about the pig, but it doesn't help the pig a bit.

Personally, I'd rather have them put the attention and money elsewhere.

Matt

OK - so maybe the coating is selectively used on certain models, my mother's '99 Camry for instance. It is clear that the rotors on certain vehicles are immune to rusting (pad wear surface of course excepted), at least where I live.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

The ugly bent metal on Camry's I see is part of the exhaust and it is held over in the current model.

Are these SS rotors perhaps? Seems like a long shot on a Camry, but who knows?

Matt

I doubt that too. But I do think that there are some effective coatings/treatments/platings that some manufacturers use on some models.

Anyone else noticed lack of corrosion on certain rotors?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

What engine size? How does that compare to any other minivan? Is it a V-8? How big in cubic inches or liters?

I have a minivan that gets, when tuned up, around 23 mpg in the city and 28 mpg at moderate highway speeds, on the highway but it's a V-6,

3.0 liter, 1994 at that, with 200,000+ miles on it. When the engine is not tuned up, it gets around 20 mpg in the city. By tuned up I mean no engine codes and parts are within operating specifications, that is, not needing to be replaced.

Actually the engine is by Mitsubishi so not sure what to call this. Japanese American car or what?

A ticking time bomb.