Re: "I do wish he wasn't coming to Germany"

Your stupendous girth shows it.

I saw quite a few Chryslers when I was in Germany

Yup, that's why we win only bamtam-weight boxing championships...

DAS

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Not that I'm aware of.

Broad statements are fun and, above all, short.

DAS

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Yes.

One has to be a little careful in what one means. Whilst it may be true that there are very few US Fords and GMs in Europe there are plenty of Chryslers, probably because Chrysler no longer has any manufacturing here.

The Chrysler range available has varied across Europe, though I think it is increasing, perhaps because the owner is based in Europe and is making an effort to sell here.

In Britain Jeeps, Grand Voyagers and PT Cruisers are not a rare sight, and from later this year and early next at least the 300 will become available. In Germany they are already selling the full range, I think.

DAS

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Misc. ramblings....

Are you sure about that...? Did Daimler take away the Graz (Austria [Osterrich]) plant from Chrysler? I thought it was alive and well (Jeeps, Minivans, etc.) only that Merc SUV production was ADDED there.

GM paid Fiat many $bil very recently to weasel out of an old agreement that would have required them to purchase a majority stake.

Funny that the most reliable VAG products have old-school Czech engines, huh?

Rick

Not sure what your point is (yes, misc ramblings). GM and Ford produce vast volumes of cars in Europe and elsewhere, and one sees few US-style GMs and Fords here. A poster just above was going on about the presence (lack of) of US cars in Europe.

Which Chrysler plant are you talking about? The one associated with Daimler-Benz/Mercedes? Ok, they are starting on Chryslers now. In that sense you can add the Crossfire, made entirely by Karmann, Osnabrueck, Germany.

Please give me a fact to contradict my contention that (these new developments excepting) Chrysler did not produce in Europe for years.

Not sure what VAG has to with this, but as you mention it, perhaps you could explain what you mean by "old-school Czech engines". I was not aware there were any.

DAS

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As far as I know, Cherokees and GCs, as well as minivans, have been built in Graz, Austria for 15+ years. With Steyr diesel powertrains.

Skodas, one of the VAG groups cars, seem to always get much higher JD Power numbers than "real" VWs and Audis. This was in reference to earlier posts about VW, Audi, BMW, and Benz quality. Most Skodas have original-CZ-design Skoda engines and all are built, as far as I know, in Mlada Bloeslav (SP?) Czech Rep. I've driven quite a few Skodas and I was always impressed. I also drove a 2.0L 5-speed New Beetle of a friend, about 2,000 miles seat time, and it was non-stop trouble - and it was a nearly new car.

As I said, these are just misc. ramblings, not wanting to ignite any kind of flame war!

Rick

I think you are talking about Steyr-Puch, a contract manufacturer. Chrysler withdrew from factories in Europe years ago. Steyr-Puch has/had deals with VW, Chrysler and Mercedes to build 4x4 systems, as well as with Fiat. Jeep Grand Cherokee has been made here since 1994, tho' there is no info on volumes (e.g. as a percentage of total sold globally or in Europe).

Then there is Magna Steyr:

Note that the current name is Steyr-Daimler-Puch (owned by General Dynamics): "Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG (Steyr), the Austrian agent for Fiat, Lancia and Alfa cars, manufactures tractors, four wheel drive vehicles & mopeds, as well as components & parts for these (particularly drive units) in addition to providing a range of technical and engineering services. The manufacture of four wheel drive vehicles for other car producers like Daimler Benz and Chrysler has become a major part of the company's business. Subsidiaries of Steyr produce military technology, motor vehicles, agricultural machinery, engines and small arms. The company has mainly domestic subsidiaries but does have some foreign subsidiaries in Switzerland and Germany, and also has interests in Turkey, Malaysia, Thailand and Nigeria. Vehicle manufacture accounted for 42% of 1997 revenues; trade, 28%; components, 22%; engineering, 4%, services, 3% and other, 1%." (Quoted from Here is a list of SDP's contract clients: Here is another good profile: This is to underline my point about Chrysler manufacture in Europe. So far, anyway. With the takeover by DC I am sure that production in Europe will rise, perhaps even at a dedicated plant one day.

I thought that VW introduced VW engines made in Germany into Skodas almost immediately on takeover. I don't think VW would have tolerated old Skoda engines for much more than the time it would take to sell the stock pipeline. The link to the Skoda website you gave says nothing about engine design.

Maybe they are built in CZ now. That, to me, does not pass any so-what? test.

DAS

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