40 years of the Ford Transit...

Yes it does. And an 18 cyl version? Bloody hell!

They also (from dodgy memory) have a thing known as the "porcupine" which is a three-row radial, with some 'orrible number of cylinders. But then - just to be contentious, if that doesn't make me a troll - aircraft engineers have always been way ahead of car builders, which is why the most advanced cars have always had aviation connections. Think Bristol, Armstrong Siddeley, early RR (the 20, unofficially known as the Goshawk as its straight six engine was very much like half the aero V12 of the same name) and these days Saab. I think we will leave Messerschmidt out of this.

Finally, one for the trivia fans - there was once a BMW Kawasaki. And it wasn't a motorbike, it was an aeroplane.

Geoff MacK

And if that wasn't alarming enough Napiers proposed a turbo-compounded version using (IIRC) the compressor stage from the RR Nene tucked away in the centre of the triangle of blocks. A sort of combination of a Deltic and a Nomad. Eeek.

There were also 4-row radials - the big USian Wright example was generally known as the Corncob and generally had nasty cooling problems concering the rear row..

I'd thought the Goshawk aero-engine was slightly later and steam-cooled, which I don't think has ever been an intentional feature of a road car.

And Heinkel? :)

They also designed a /24-cylinder/ version. Four crankshafts.

48 pistons. $DEITY knows how many blowers:

And (contrary to my last posting) they actually built the turbo- compound, which was good for 6000bhp or so (in a package "the size of the 1st Lord's desk", as a naval engineer officer of the time put it):

How's /that/ for a turbocharger?

Napier seem to have had this thing about complexity.

Geoff Mackenzie ( snipped-for-privacy@acsysindia.freeserve.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Also Voisin.

But Saab cars are commercially nothing to do with Saab aeroplanes or Scania trucks any more.

Saab cars are 100% GM. Saab aeroplanes are largely private, with BAE the largest single shareholder apart from a VC group.

I *like* 'schmitts.

Don't forget Ford's '30s corrugated tri-engined flying transit van.

,

happens in

No, they are Gas Turbine, not much more than a set of fans and a atomised fuel supply.

Next you will be calling the rocket motor engine an IC unit....

The thing is, the principle of the engine is basically very simple, even when you have 18 cylinders (or more), it's the added compressors and fuel injection equipment that makes it look complicated...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember ":::Jerry::::" saying something like:

Christ, but you really are an ignoramus.

Look, I'll spell it out for you.... A heat engine which has its combustion process taking place outside of it is an EXTERNAL COMBUSTION engine. Conventional steam engines, Stirling engines.

A heat engine which has its combustion process taking place internally, is guess what, an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine.

This, believe it or not, includes reaction engines (rockets, to you).

Simple enough for you?

Good; now don't let the drool dry on the monitor.

Hey - don't knock it. I flew one of those (the Tri-Motor) and it worked pretty well. I think there was also a Junkers of similar design.

Re the flying Transit Van - the Short SkyVan was the ultimate. Square box with a plank on top. Story at the time was that they threw away the aeroplane and kept the packing case. I got seriously told off on long finals at Biggin when I said I was number two to what appeared to be a PortaKabin. I also recall trying to find an Islander at Gatwick on my first run, and was told to look for a garden shed with an outside toilet. All bloody unfair - they were all very fine aircraft which did the job for which they were designed. It's just that the punters all expected their bucket-and-spade Benidorm expresses to look like space shuttles.

Hope no-one minds me drifting a bit off-topic - my defence is the "virtual pub" where you can go to things vaguely related. And I think there is a lot in common between classic car enthusiasts and old fliers.

Geoff MacK

- all take offs are optional. All landings are mandatory.

- if you can walk away from it, it was a good landing. If the aeroplane can be used for any purpose whatsoever after, it was a VERY good landing.

Stop talking about yourself moron, and I'm not a common f****it troll, like you either.

COMBUSTION

internally,

You really are the ignorant little trolling turd, if your description is correct then it makes a railway steam locomotive an IC engine....

you).

So if rocket motors are IC engines why did you just call it them 'reaction engines'? Dooooooooooooooooh !....

It's simple that you are nothing but the true ignoranus, you know sod all, piss off back to your own group, alt.troll.

As you're the first 'net comment I've seen that seems to know the slightest thing about Griffin engines, could you possibly explain what they're about ? I'm curious to see this thing, just to find an explanantion of why it has six strokes / phases.

The RN versions (and some railway engines) were mostly the "Baby Deltic", a 3 bank version (9 cylinders, 18 pistons) rather than the Deltic. There's a quite good book "The Napier Way" which is the autobiog of a chap who began pre-war on their single-bank opposed piston engines (licence-buitl Junkers) and later worked on Deltic development.

The opposed piston uniflow diesel is an efficient design, but a bit heavy for its power owing to the two crankcaases per cylinder volume. Junkers had the idea in WW2 of building a "box" engine and sharing crankshafts between adjacent banks, but some bright spark at Napier realised that by running one crank backward, you could get the phasing right to do it with only three banks.

There's a beautiful model "Deltic alike" that shows up at the better model engineer shows. About a cubic foot in size it's a piece of absolutely wonderful design and CNC machining. It's only a rough copy of a Deltic, but should eb a working engine (on propane) when completed.

Andy Dingley ( snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

I'll go with that - I've *never* been able to get my head properly around any of these "odd" engines.

Hell, I'm almost tempted to remove Jerry from my KF in order to do so...

better

Better still, learn how to use Google !...

development.

Well, either he is talking twaddle or you need to learn to read, or at least read a book dealing with engines use on the railway) !....

The 9 cylinder engines were fitted into the class 23 aka 'Baby Deltic' loco's (and were about as reliable as a chocolate tea pot in an oven...), the 18 cylinder engines were fitted in to the 'Deltic' Locomotives, these had two 18 cylinder engines. The used in engine for the RN MTB's were of 18 cylinders - the railway version being developed from this engine, the 9 cylinder version was a cut down version.

You don't have any engineering education or background, do you Jerry?

You should go and read up on engine basics (in the engineering sense) and thermodynamics, because you're out of your depth here relying on your feeble schoolboy intuition to give you answers. On the other hand, you could continue and make a bigger fool of yourself. It's up to you. You're entertaining though, I'll give you that.

in

when

description

engine....

Jerry?

sense)

Read what the Grimy troll said, if his definition is correct then a railway steam locomotive is an IC engine because combustion takes place internally - seeing that the whole unit is the engine.

Just FO troll.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Geoff Mackenzie" saying something like:

AOL, they were bloody fine aircraft.

Nope, you were right the first time.

I can't find anything on Google that explains what a 6-stroke Griffin engine does. Nor can I find anyone in Bath who knows where it's currently living (although I can guess, and the current holder is probably a usenet regular)

And how does that differ from what I said ?

And look at the numbers of installed engines the RN had. They used both, but more of the Baby Deltic.