electrical question

Damn.......

Denny

Sure. And I'm on the left coast, posted something at 2:45 AM, but you expected me to stay up til 4:00 to await your next reply.

Oh, look! Neil is starting to call me names now.

Those are "floaters", Neil, they're in your eyeballs.

Don't try to blow a nebulous fog over it, Neil.

So you, and everyone else, would connect the relay trigger to radio power, same as Al would? And that's why "this circuit" covers everything?

Which confirmed what I said. You have the batteries connected while cranking.

You won't answer, so there's NO circuit now?

Sure. Al can turn his key to "Acc." so the family can listen to the truck's CD player over dinner, while his trailer's lights drain the truck battery.

We can argue if you like, Neil, but I might end up naming you Nell. Then you'd get upset.

Is that what you want Beryl?

I offered an explanation as to why your deductions were in error.

Apparently, it upsets you that you were wrong and that I know more about the subject than you.

I'll make it real simple. (assume you have at least seven fingers and/or toes left) There are seven output circuits from the ignition switch on a

2002 Dodge Dakota; Circuit #2 is hot in the run and start position. Circuit #3 is hot in the run and start position Circuit #7 is hot in the run position only Circuit #8 is hot in the run position only Circuit #9 is hot in the run position and the accessory position Circuit #10 is hot in the run position and the accessory position Circuit #13 is hot in the start position only

From the above factory information, it is easy to see that it is possible to tap into two of these circuits to trigger an auxiliary battery isolation relay so that the relay would -only- be energized when the ignition switch is in the engine running position, the relay would -not- be energized during engine crank and the relay would not be energized if the ignition switch were in the accessory position.

If I were wiring this relay for a customer, I would not wire it as Big Al suggested, not because his way wouldn't work but because his way leaves an error mode that the customer may not realize resulting in a drained vehicle battery. IOWs, because of certain people who can't fathom how a battery isolation circuit works, things have to be made as idiot proof as possible.

Now, feel free to call me any name that you choose; Nell, Nellybell, Bob and Neil, Aardvark, punkin, sweetcheeks, hermaphrodite, etc. because after all, there is nothing wrong with one more confirmation from you of what type of person you really are. FYI, if there was even the slightest chance that anything you say could "upset" me, why would I bother explaining your error to you?

Or say thank you for giving you a bit of free education.

NELL:

NELL, I want you to pick up where Skippy bailed out. I simply copy/pasted it, you'll have to mentally substitute NELL wherever you see the name Skippy.

--------------------------- My first answer to Big Al wasn't "profound" enough for you. Why don't you elaborate on it a bit?

You probably, no, *definitely*, should comment on my assertion that connecting a 12V car battery to a 12V motorcycle might not be a good idea. Do you agree, or disagree, or have any thoughts at all? Tell us!

How about the parallel battery setup that I called a poor design, Dodge does that don't they? I haven't seen Dodge's dual battery setup personally, but I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned here. And I don't recall ever seeing any negative comments about it. If it's as I think it is, then I just called it LOUSY, and nobody wants to comment? What do you think about it, Skippy?

---------------------------

I routinely use a 12 volt motorcycle battery as a back up power supply when replacing batteries on vehicles where there is a risk of locking out a radio, erasing seat/mirror/steering column/radio memory settings, on Mercedes-Benz vehicles which have a chronic pattern failure where the front and rear body computers (SAMS) will not re-boot after a power down. I've been using the same motorcycle battery for quite a few years with no ill effect to the motorcycle battery, *any* vehicle battery, *any* charging system. Most trailer break away devices are nothing more than a wet cell motorcycle battery which is connected in parallel to the tow vehicles 12 volt supply system. Draw your own conclusions.

It's the standard set up on their diesel engined (Ram) trucks.

Well bberryll, I think (actually, I know) that GM, Ford and a host of other manufacturers use that exact same parallel battery set up on many of their diesel engined products, and have for quite a few years. Every Hybrid vehicle I've been trained on so far uses multiple battery cell packs connected in parallel. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but if you know of a better way to supply the necessary amperage needed to start a diesel engine, if you know of a better way to supply the needed starting *and* pre-heater/glow plug amperage demands in a better fashion, do tell us, won't you? As it stands now, two batteries in parallel is the most cost effective method to achieve the needed energy density.

I anxiously await your self aggrandized reply...

No answer. ZERO.

You scored a ZERO on that one too, NELL. Read the question again.

How about two 6 volt batteries in series, rather than two 12 volt batteries in parallel, NELL? That way Dodge, GM, Ford, and a host of manufacturers can deliver the needed ampacity without the parallel design problem.

Not so good, NELL. I'll say you answered the last one okay, so your score is 33%. That's an F-

How about you explain this so called parallel battery problem??

Why not just use cold fusion?

Good thing it's just you doing the grading.

NELL:

Golf Cart batteries, NELL.

That's right, NELL. I was being generous giving you full credit on the last one.

They're electrically connected, but chemically separated.

Voltage across like terminals will equalize, it has to, with the same

+12 volts at every + terminal, or same -12V at every - terminal, whichever way you want to look at it.

A failing battery, one that won't hold its charge, will continually drain power from a healthier battery as the 12V present at its terminal tries to recharge the failing chemistry inside.

No problem if all batteries are equally healthy... or equally unhealthy. The greater the mismatch, the quicker the weaker ones take the others down with them. However many there are, doesn't have to be two, they'll all eventually end up at the level of the weakest one out of the bunch.

(Better wait for NELL's opinion)

WOW, and to think that Detroit has been doing it wrong all these years.

You should patent your idea as quickly as possible.

This discovery of yours is going to rock the world.

It is my opinion that we are witnessing the return of Altovoz.

NELL:

Wish I could claim credit, NELL, but I read it in an RV magazine decades ago. Kind of funny that it's still news to you.

Yup. The notion that more electrical power can be gotten from two 6 volt batteries compared to two 12 volt batteries -is- news to me.

Let me ask you something;

If one cell in your two 6 volt in series battery invention goes open circuit, will the vehicle 4 way flashers work?

NELL:

Time to retake the quiz, NELL, you've had a couple of days to study what you missed.

At least make an effort on the first question, NELL. Skipping it just gives you an automatic zero.

The second question is about a car battery connected to a motorcycle. Okay? Not the other way around, NELL, *not* a motorcycle battery connected to a car. I don't know what threw you off there, it should have been pretty clear.

Since I already finished the third question for you, I'll have to change it a little bit. Explain why batteries in series won't have the discharge problem that parallel batteries can have.

NELL:

Whoa! Hold on, NELL, did anybody say anything about more electrical power? There isn't more, NELL, why did you think so?

There are still twelve cells, still the same size, same volts, same amps, same power. But now each "cell" is blissfully and chemically together with itself as one, in the same case, instead of being divided into pieces. Now not only the electrons, but also the +ions, can be happy. :)

Without clever design, no way! And they're of great importance with a disabled vehicle. So let me ask you, can you imagine a solution?

It's clear, NELL, you never learned a whole lot about electricity. This conversation about simple batteries tells me that.

Because In article , Beryl wrote: "How about two 6 volt batteries in series, rather than two 12 volt batteries in parallel, NELL? That way Dodge, GM, Ford, and a host of manufacturers can deliver the needed ampacity without the parallel design problem. Golf Cart batteries, NELL."

I know you're going to claim that means something entirely different than what it says, but last time I checked, volts X amps equals watts and watts is the standard measure of electrical power.

Chemically together?

• ions?

All your two 6 volt batteries in series equals is a 12 volt battery. I'm no golf cart expert but every 6 volt golf cart battery I've been able to view consists of 3 wet cells in individual compartments. So where this "chemically together" crap comes from in an individual battery much less two connected by a cable is anyones guess. Not surprising being it comes from someone who's best description of a wire gauge is "heavy."

I don't need to imagine a solution. As for clever design, what's this now, adding another red herring to the fray? Your original claim said two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series beats two 12 volt batteries in parallel, now it needs clever design. What next, it will all work as long as you carry a case of road flares? Going to rub some nylon on a piece of amber?

Says the guy who learned his electronics a few decades ago from an RV magazine.

You're a moron, you've proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I don't think so bimbo. You asked for my thoughts, I gave them. No matter how staunch of a democrat you are, it's still not my fault if you can't comprehend your own question.

Nothing threw me off sweetie, I've never had the occasion to connect a car battery to a motorcycle. Unlike your hero Snofart, I can't speak of that which I've never done. Thanks to my fine mechanical skills, all of the motorcycles I've owned never gave me cause to consider connecting one of them to a car battery.

What discharge problem is that? Nine years+ on the OEM batteries in my 97 CTD doesn't support your assertion. There is no perfect, there is no fool proof, stop looking for it. It's boring and it makes you look like a neurotic.

If you really need to know about batteries in parallel and discharge, try the library. if you're having *other* types of discharge problem, try a gynecologist.

If your compulsion regarding batteries in parallel is *that* overwhelming, try asking Snoclod how many batteries he uses in his plow trucks, what voltage they are and whether they're connected in series or parallel. For bonus points, ask him if and how they're isolated.

When you're done, wiggle your fat ass back into your cubicle and do the work that my welfare to work tax dollars are paying you to do.