V10 poor towing performance

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wrote:


Very Stupid and expensive too and it will NEVER EVER pay

Have YOU ever owned either configuration??? Or are you just....................
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I have driven both many times and I can do math can you??? ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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That's not what he asked...
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:56:16 GMT, "Tom Lawrence"

Actually it is, I guess math and looking at the big is not one of you strong points huh whiel BS is as deminstrated in your other comments in this thread. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

That wasn't the question. So you have no real long term experience with one?
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THrough my personal direct ownership no but through friends I know owned them and through my work and through some high level contacts I have at several dealersas well as many that I have driven I know about them well. Likely better than you. I have been messing with all kinds of 4x4 for almost 40 years now and have owned about a dozen now and woked on many others too. See when I lot at a truck, I lot at how it is built and designed for a engineering point of view from ground up, not just at the style and interior as maybe over 90% do today. I can tell you how and why things work, not if they are just pretty. How many trucks have you actually driven with a laptop hooked up to the OBD2 port to plot the difference in timing curves and resulting air and fuel flow rates under different loads with different grades of fuel? I will bet zero. I have done a lot and when some there is a big difference. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

Okay you haven't owned either truck so all your bs is strictly what you think. You also claim to know them better than I do, even though I have owned both. I bet your a expert in everything you read about aren't ya? After reading all your post's I guess I can be a proctologist. Think about it.

Yada,yada, more bs. What is this post your resume? Here's mine, well occupation anyway. Diesel locomotive mech. since 1972. I do know a bit about diesels, but I don't have all the answers Oh, I've been messing around for over 4X4's for over 40 years, so what? There are folks here that are a lot sharper than I am. And for sure, a hell of a lot sharper than you! Maybe you will catch on to that.
You have yet to answer my question. If your logic is correct what aren't gas engines used in otr trucks?
Roy
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.
wrote:

better than someone who actually owned them, worked on them, and drove them daily under all conditions???? come on now if you actually believe that ive got a bridge ill sell you.
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wrote:

The way I read FMB's advice, he means that the whole truck should be replaced, not doing a V10 to diesel conversion on the OP's truck. Is that the way you're reading it?
Ken
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Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch.
We're fairly certain a diesel touched him inappropriately as a child, and he's harboring repressed feelings of resentment and hatred. :^)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 00:46:05 GMT, "Tom Lawrence"

Se people like you are on some kind of trip that the get a fix by putting people down. I have been around diesels in farm machinery and construction equipment for about 40 years now have you??? I know deisel ins and outs and I have had several of them as loaners for several weeks at a time and have friend with them too. See what irks you guys is that you just cannot stand it when someone does not blindly follow the diesel fumes. I was pulling some wicked loads with gas trucks long before there was a oil burner in a pickup. While going to college in 70's I drove a c70 triaxle during summer months and breaks and it "tiny" 427 with a 20 speed had no trouble moving its 60K GVW around. THe ONLY thing that holds back some gas tow vehicle is axle ratios and nothing more. Gear a gas motor properly for its power curve and load and it will pull anything you ask it too. Sure it may use more gas but fuel costs less, truck is about 6 k cheaper, it weigh 400 to 600lbs less so it can carry more payload, cheaper to maintain and insure and the list goes on. But see some of you diesel guys are just on hormones and not open to logic at all nor true cost involved too. I can co out to my gas burner when it is 20 below or colder and it WILL start instanly and smoothly and be able to drive off and heat up quickly until a oil burner and no stinky fumes, hands from fuel and I can even not have to yell in a drive thru to be heard too. If you like them fine but not in my driveway, only in the fields and such. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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We know... we know.... uphill, both ways, 6 feet of snow.... in July... no shoes...

And stop at every gas station along the way, too...

Yeah, I'd say twice as much meets the definition of 'more'

Not around here....

By the time you fork over $12K in fuel (24,000 miles at 3 bucks a gallon, getting 6MPG), you'd have paid for that extra $6K

Negligible when talking about a 1-ton truck... and we're talking about towing, not hauling.

Nope - as has been shown here time and time again. The cost is the same or slightly less.

your insurance asks what kind of engine you have? Funny.... I paid about the same per year on my '99 V10 when it was new as I did for my '03 Cummins when it was new. They never asked about engine... body type, number of doors, yeah - engine? nope. Misrepresentation # 3,194 by you, if my count is correct.

As soon as you present some logic, we'll listen.

you mean like I did with my diesel two winters ago? Okay - granted, I had to wait about 6 seconds for the grid heaters to warm up. Wow... ya got me there. 6 whole seconds. That's worth an extra $50K in extra fuel costs (assuming the gas engine makes it to 200,000 miles - we know the diesel will)

the only time I've smelled any 'stinky fumes' from my truck is when I walk behind it when it's idling. If you spend all day with your nose up your truck's tailpipe, well....

Don't make a mess, and your hands won't stink. Use the full service island if you're worried about mussing your manicure.

I hit the drive-thru about once a week (yeah, I know...), and they never have any trouble hearing me. 'course, when that one SOB in his BMW cut me off so he could get in line first, he had a BIT of trouble being heard.... probably something to do with my engine taching up to about 2,700RPM.... gotta get that problem looked at.

I do - as do a number of others. You don't, that's well established. But please, stop with all the errant 'facts' of yours. As several people have told you - a lot has changed with light-truck diesels in the past 10 years.
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wrote:

If your logic is correct why aren't gas engines used in otr rigs? Or donkey engines? Hell, locomotives?
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Even if you possibly had some good information to share (and I doubt that very much) it is lost in your total lack of ability to express yourself coherently in writing.
wrote:

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FMB wrote:

The math doesn't always add up.
If he took his truck down to the Dodge dealer and traded it for the exact same truck, except with a Cummins, it would cost him about $9,000. Check the numbers on KBB.com.
According to the numbers quoted here, the diesel gets 16mpg towing, and the V-10 gets 6. That's a big difference. And straight highway driving the diesel gets 21 and the gas 11mpg. Again, big difference; but I suspect that's worse case for the gas and best case for the diesel. But how many gallons of fuel, and how many miles do you have to travel to make up that $9K?
In towing miles, it's only about 30,000 miles or so to break even. In straight highway driving, it's closer to 60K miles. And that's best case scenario on today's fuel prices.
Now you've got a truck that has 100-120K+ miles on it, just to break even. The Cummins will easily last twice that. But will the trans? Ball joints? Shocks? Brakes? Batteries (there are 2)? I don't think so. Heck, the original trans only lasted 50K, and the current one is now 30% into it's service life. Now the break even point just gets further away. For some people, that just doesn't make sense.
RollinK, You take 2,000 mile trips with your truck and trailer. How often? 5 times a year? Ten? Once? Only plan to do it once, and then never again?
I do a fair amount of towing with my small Dakota. 5-6K#, once or twice a month, 200-400 miles at a time. Gets terrible gas mileage while towing, like 8. Doesn't get much better when not towing. I've done the math, and it certainly doesn't make sense for me to trade. OTOH, if I was towing a lot more weight, or a lot more miles, it might.
You can't make a blanket statement that all truck owners are better off with a big honkin diesel. That just proves you haven't done your homework.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Hey man, don't tow in overdrive, at least double check the owner's manual ... I know mine says to explicitly not use overdrive for towing. I don't want to see you burn out your tranny ...
later,peace -Derek
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Actually I have thought about buying a wrecked low mileage CTD truck and doing the swap, I have the tools and ability to do it, and I REALLY like the truck other than the towing performance. I've been told the V10 trans will mate to the CTD, does anyone know for sure about wiring harness, fuel tank and other possible problems. If I did this I would buy a wrecked doner truck to make life much easier.
Also, any advise on what are the better or worse years for the CTD ? If I sell this for the Cummins, I don't want to make another mistake.
Thanks Rollin
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If you get the same year truck (or at least in the same 'body generation' - ie. '94-'97, or '98-'02), and you get the complete engine electrical harness (including the PCM - the computer that bolts to the pasenger firewall, which is separate from the ECM, which is the computer bolted to the driver's side of the diesel engine. The ECM runs the engine [on those that have it - see below], the PCM handles the transmission, instrument panel, pretty much everything BUT the engine operation), everything should pretty much plug together at the firewall. The fuel tank will be fine, but you'll either have to replace the fuel pump module with an empty module designed for a diesel (which is just a pickup tube and a return line), or make one yourself (simple enough to do - couple of bulkhead fittings, and just cap off the ports on the old module - it'll do a good job of sealing up the big hole it would otherwise leave in the tank if you removed it).

Well, it would be easiest to work with a '94 to early '98 donor truck, which came with the 12V (12 valve) diesel engine. The engine is strictly mechanical (give it +12V to the fuel shutoff solenoid, crank it over, and it'll run), meaning less wiring problems to deal with. No ECM to deal with, and minimal wiring (the fuel shutoff solenoid, a tach wire somewhere, and oil pressure and water temp sensors - that's about it). If you go this route, research the "killer dowel pin" problem, and make sure the engine you get either has this fix, or fix it before putting it in the truck (real simple to do when the engine's on a stand). If you go with a late '98 to '02 donor truck, you'll have the 24V (24 valve) semi-electronic engine. This engine has a little more electronics going on (for example, it has an ECM), as the fuel injection is partially electronic (but partially mechanical, as well). It also has an electric lift pump (the pump that pulls fuel from the tank and feeds it to the injection pump) as opposed to the earlier mechanical pump (cam-driven from the engine).
Given the two, the 12V is a little more reliable, and a little better on fuel economy. The 24V has the potential for more power, because of the better-flowing head - though I get the sense you're not looking to build a competition sled-puller here.
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generation' -

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A lot depends on the state he lives in and their emissions control laws. In many states you have to have your vehicles smog checked. If so, you can't easily swap engines.
Al
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