THrough my personal direct ownership no but through friends I know
owned them and through my work and through some high level contacts I
have at several dealersas well as many that I have driven I know about
them well. Likely better than you. I have been messing with all kinds
of 4x4 for almost 40 years now and have owned about a dozen now and
woked on many others too. See when I lot at a truck, I lot at how it
is built and designed for a engineering point of view from ground up,
not just at the style and interior as maybe over 90% do today. I can
tell you how and why things work, not if they are just pretty. How
many trucks have you actually driven with a laptop hooked up to the
OBD2 port to plot the difference in timing curves and resulting air
and fuel flow rates under different loads with different grades of
fuel? I will bet zero. I have done a lot and when some there is a big
Okay you haven't owned either truck so all your bs is strictly what you
think. You also claim to know them better than I do, even though I have
owned both. I bet your a expert in everything you read about aren't ya?
After reading all your post's I guess I can be a proctologist. Think about
Yada,yada, more bs. What is this post your resume? Here's mine, well
occupation anyway. Diesel locomotive mech. since 1972. I do know a bit about
diesels, but I don't have all the answers Oh, I've been messing around for
over 4X4's for over 40 years, so what? There are folks here that are a lot
sharper than I am. And for sure, a hell of a lot sharper than you! Maybe you
will catch on to that.
You have yet to answer my question. If your logic is correct what aren't gas
engines used in otr trucks?
Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of
work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch.
We're fairly certain a diesel touched him inappropriately as a child, and
he's harboring repressed feelings of resentment and hatred. :^)
Se people like you are on some kind of trip that the get a fix by
putting people down. I have been around diesels in farm machinery and
construction equipment for about 40 years now have you??? I know
deisel ins and outs and I have had several of them as loaners for
several weeks at a time and have friend with them too. See what irks
you guys is that you just cannot stand it when someone does not
blindly follow the diesel fumes. I was pulling some wicked loads with
gas trucks long before there was a oil burner in a pickup. While going
to college in 70's I drove a c70 triaxle during summer months and
breaks and it "tiny" 427 with a 20 speed had no trouble moving its 60K
GVW around. THe ONLY thing that holds back some gas tow vehicle is
axle ratios and nothing more. Gear a gas motor properly for its power
curve and load and it will pull anything you ask it too. Sure it may
use more gas but fuel costs less, truck is about 6 k cheaper, it weigh
400 to 600lbs less so it can carry more payload, cheaper to maintain
and insure and the list goes on. But see some of you diesel guys are
just on hormones and not open to logic at all nor true cost involved
too. I can co out to my gas burner when it is 20 below or colder and
it WILL start instanly and smoothly and be able to drive off and heat
up quickly until a oil burner and no stinky fumes, hands from fuel and
I can even not have to yell in a drive thru to be heard too. If you
like them fine but not in my driveway, only in the fields and such.
We know... we know.... uphill, both ways, 6 feet of snow.... in July...
And stop at every gas station along the way, too...
Yeah, I'd say twice as much meets the definition of 'more'
Not around here....
By the time you fork over $12K in fuel (24,000 miles at 3 bucks a gallon,
getting 6MPG), you'd have paid for that extra $6K
Negligible when talking about a 1-ton truck... and we're talking about
towing, not hauling.
Nope - as has been shown here time and time again. The cost is the same or
your insurance asks what kind of engine you have? Funny.... I paid about
the same per year on my '99 V10 when it was new as I did for my '03 Cummins
when it was new. They never asked about engine... body type, number of
doors, yeah - engine? nope. Misrepresentation # 3,194 by you, if my count
As soon as you present some logic, we'll listen.
you mean like I did with my diesel two winters ago? Okay - granted, I had
to wait about 6 seconds for the grid heaters to warm up. Wow... ya got me
there. 6 whole seconds. That's worth an extra $50K in extra fuel costs
(assuming the gas engine makes it to 200,000 miles - we know the diesel
the only time I've smelled any 'stinky fumes' from my truck is when I walk
behind it when it's idling. If you spend all day with your nose up your
truck's tailpipe, well....
Don't make a mess, and your hands won't stink. Use the full service island
if you're worried about mussing your manicure.
I hit the drive-thru about once a week (yeah, I know...), and they never
have any trouble hearing me. 'course, when that one SOB in his BMW cut me
off so he could get in line first, he had a BIT of trouble being heard....
probably something to do with my engine taching up to about 2,700RPM....
gotta get that problem looked at.
I do - as do a number of others. You don't, that's well established. But
please, stop with all the errant 'facts' of yours. As several people have
told you - a lot has changed with light-truck diesels in the past 10 years.
The math doesn't always add up.
If he took his truck down to the Dodge dealer and traded it for the exact same
except with a Cummins, it would cost him about $9,000. Check the numbers on
According to the numbers quoted here, the diesel gets 16mpg towing, and the V-10
6. That's a big difference. And straight highway driving the diesel gets 21
gas 11mpg. Again, big difference; but I suspect that's worse case for the gas
best case for the diesel. But how many gallons of fuel, and how many miles do
have to travel to make up that $9K?
In towing miles, it's only about 30,000 miles or so to break even. In straight
highway driving, it's closer to 60K miles. And that's best case scenario on
Now you've got a truck that has 100-120K+ miles on it, just to break even. The
Cummins will easily last twice that. But will the trans? Ball joints? Shocks?
Brakes? Batteries (there are 2)? I don't think so. Heck, the original trans
lasted 50K, and the current one is now 30% into it's service life. Now the
even point just gets further away. For some people, that just doesn't make
RollinK, You take 2,000 mile trips with your truck and trailer. How often? 5
a year? Ten? Once? Only plan to do it once, and then never again?
I do a fair amount of towing with my small Dakota. 5-6K#, once or twice a
200-400 miles at a time. Gets terrible gas mileage while towing, like 8.
get much better when not towing. I've done the math, and it certainly doesn't
sense for me to trade. OTOH, if I was towing a lot more weight, or a lot more
You can't make a blanket statement that all truck owners are better off with a
honkin diesel. That just proves you haven't done your homework.
Hey man, don't tow in overdrive, at least double check the owner's
manual ... I know mine says to explicitly not use overdrive for towing.
I don't want to see you burn out your tranny ...
Actually I have thought about buying a wrecked low mileage CTD truck
and doing the swap, I have the tools and ability to do it, and I REALLY
like the truck other than the towing performance. I've been told the
V10 trans will mate to the CTD, does anyone know for sure about wiring
harness, fuel tank and other possible problems. If I did this I would
buy a wrecked doner truck to make life much easier.
Also, any advise on what are the better or worse years for the CTD ? If
I sell this for the Cummins, I don't want to make another mistake.
If you get the same year truck (or at least in the same 'body generation' -
ie. '94-'97, or '98-'02), and you get the complete engine electrical
harness (including the PCM - the computer that bolts to the pasenger
firewall, which is separate from the ECM, which is the computer bolted to
the driver's side of the diesel engine. The ECM runs the engine [on those
that have it - see below], the PCM handles the transmission, instrument
panel, pretty much everything BUT the engine operation), everything should
pretty much plug together at the firewall. The fuel tank will be fine, but
you'll either have to replace the fuel pump module with an empty module
designed for a diesel (which is just a pickup tube and a return line), or
make one yourself (simple enough to do - couple of bulkhead fittings, and
just cap off the ports on the old module - it'll do a good job of sealing up
the big hole it would otherwise leave in the tank if you removed it).
Well, it would be easiest to work with a '94 to early '98 donor truck, which
came with the 12V (12 valve) diesel engine. The engine is strictly
mechanical (give it +12V to the fuel shutoff solenoid, crank it over, and
it'll run), meaning less wiring problems to deal with. No ECM to deal with,
and minimal wiring (the fuel shutoff solenoid, a tach wire somewhere, and
oil pressure and water temp sensors - that's about it). If you go this
route, research the "killer dowel pin" problem, and make sure the engine you
get either has this fix, or fix it before putting it in the truck (real
simple to do when the engine's on a stand). If you go with a late '98 to
'02 donor truck, you'll have the 24V (24 valve) semi-electronic engine.
This engine has a little more electronics going on (for example, it has an
ECM), as the fuel injection is partially electronic (but partially
mechanical, as well). It also has an electric lift pump (the pump that
pulls fuel from the tank and feeds it to the injection pump) as opposed to
the earlier mechanical pump (cam-driven from the engine).
Given the two, the 12V is a little more reliable, and a little better on
fuel economy. The 24V has the potential for more power, because of the
better-flowing head - though I get the sense you're not looking to build a
competition sled-puller here.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.