Toyota quality

The key thing here is that Toyota was pro-active in issuing the recall which they were not legally required to do (but the stop sale order is something that they likely would have been ordered to do if they hadn't done so voluntarily). If you look back on _far_ more serious safety recalls on Ford and GM products, those companies were forced, kicking and screaming, to do safety recalls, which led to consumers abandoning them en-masse, essentially forever. You would hear these consumers complaining about rental cars, and there company's fleet cars, where they had no choice but to have a GM or Ford.

It's one thing to fight a recall that is not safety related (i.e. excessive oil burning) that doesn't have a direct impact on safety. I remember VW fighting the recall on some their water-cooled engines where valve stem seals had a problem, though eventually they capitulated.

Consumers are pretty reasonable. If they buy a product that turns out to have a problem, and the manufacturer fixes the problem without a hassle, then they're likely to continue as a loyal customer. The reason the U.S. vehicle manufacturers got into such trouble is that they were so arrogant that you still here the familiar story of "I bought a (GM, Ford, Chrysler) once--never again." Toyota and Honda understood that the key to a long term business plan was to keep selling more product to happy repeat customers.

Ford seems to be turning around, and hopefully they'll adopt Toyota's attitude the next time they encounter a problem like this.

Where have YOU been? The feds ordered Toyota to issue the recall, dummy

Where did you get the idea that GM losing money on every car we sell? You do not seem to know much about the cost of doing business. Perhaps you are confusing build costs with the cost to doing business. The fact is GM makes money on every vehicle it sells. The COST has been spending billions to restructure and to revamp and develop the latest in electric vehicle technology. That is why they are currently not showing a profit

Once again our friend Canuck57 is telling us the sky is falling LOL

Once again our friend Canuck57 is telling us the sky is falling LOL

This is pretty much BS. Toyota had a choice - issue a "voluntary" recall or have NHTSA issue a mandatory one. If you wait till you have a gun to your head to volunteer to do something, it is self serving BS to claim you are a good guy for doing it. This is not a new problem. Toyota has been aware of it for years. Only after multiple death and a lot of negative publicity and NHTSA threats did Toyota do anything "voluntarily." This has been Toyota's standard operating procedure forever. Look back over history - rusting frames, bad ball joints, defective suspensions, etc.,etc. Toyota does nothing until public pressure or NHTSA forces them to do so.

At least in recent history, this has not been true for Ford. Ford and NHTSA administration agreed that only few vehicle merited recall for the cruise control switch problem, but Ford has pretty much recalled them all. Or the Firestone tire recall. Ford recalled all the bad tires even when Firestone tried to weasel out. I don't have much experience with GM, so I can't comment on the GM recall history, but I suspect it is far better than you think. And if you would look through the NHTSA database I think you'd find that Toyota is far worse than either Ford or GM. I have no idea how they have created this perception that they are good guy when they have one of the worst histories of responding to Customer Complaints of any company selling cars in the US.

Ed

Then this is fairly recent, because the last review I saw showed that GM was losing money selling cars, but making it up on financials.

In fact the REASON GM had to be bailed out wsasn't because of losing money selling cars (which they were) but because the Financial arm started losing money as well, led by losses at Ditech.

The "we lose money on every car we sell..." was an old joke. Or was it?

All through the 90's Gm was, in fact losing money on car sales. Only the Financial division was keeping it afloat. Well documented many, many times in the WSJ.

Yeah, but you're (I can't BELIEVE I'm saying this!!!) rational. A lot of people, esp those with their first Toyotas are going to remember the time they bought a Toyota that could have KILLED them!!!

Those of us who have had them for years, trouble and near maintenance free, can kind of excuse the company that has treated us so well for so many years. The American car lovers will never forget, as will the owners who bought their first Toyota based on popularity or another owner's recommendation and got dumped on.

Actually, nobody dumped anybody. GM cancelled Pontiac. The Vibe was a Pontiac. With the end of Pontiac there was no longer a Pontiac Vibe to be built. The car was not sold under any other GM brand.

To a Japanese design.

Or American Design. Toyota designs cars in the US, too.

You are correct, to a point. They have initiated this HUGE recall on the basis of a VERY low number of confirmed complaints, for a defect that ALWAYS gives a warning. These throttles are not suddenly sticking open. They are getting progressively stiffer untill the return spring can co longer overcome the increased friction.

As far as the "stop sale" order, that is a misnomer. They are still allowed to sel the cars. HOWEVER - it is US Federal law that a vehicle under recall CAN NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE CUSTOMER. This has been law for YEARS. Toyota went beyond the standard by shutting down PRODUCTION of the affected vehicles to prevent a stockpile of defective undeliverable vehicles that would need to be corrected before sale, making it easier on the dealers and hopefully getting the customer vehicles looked after sooner. As for the "Totota knew about the bropblem back in 2004" argument, The NTSC recieved numerous complaints of accelleration under one second in duration - none of which could be substantiated. If they had a problem in 2004 it was not caused by the same issue tyey are dealing with now.

Personally, I am NOT COMFORTABLE with a drive by wire throttle system that does not have a real good failsafe system to close the throttle completely in case of malfunction.

It has been stated by others on this list that both linkage and "by wire" throttles are included in this recall.

Can anyone confirm, by physically looking under the hood of an affected vehicle and confirming it has a mechanical linkage, and including the year and model??? It has been my understanding that all of these defective throttle pedal assemblies are damped electronic throttles - and that it is a damper related problem caused by moisture getting into the damper assembly causing it to bind. Cable or linkage type throttles do NOT have a damper in them.

ALso, this is being blown WAY out of proportion. A very specific set of conditions has to exist for this throttle problem to manifest itself - and it is NOT a sudden onset issue.

It is unfortunate that there have been several supposedly related, yet totally separate, issues surrounding Toyota throttles in the last short time - including "stupidity" relating to floor mats, This "rare" throttle binding issue, and a "possible but unconfirmed" less than 1 second throttle application first reported, but unsubstantiated, back in 2004.

And GM does? Or Ford? Replacing ball joints and steering racks and inner tie-rod ends on GM Front Drive vehicles has been a "profit center" for dealerships and general repair garages for years. Sam,e with the sloppy "rubber" steering linkage parts on Fords.

Perhaps because people are more likely to COMPLAIN about a (percieved or real) problem with a Japanese car than a domestic???

Not saying it is so - but a very good possibility.

People buying American iron have come to expect some problems, while owners of Toyotas and other "quality" imports have come to expect NO problems. When problems occur, it is BIG NEWS.

That is almost right. It was made by the NUMMI facility, which GM dumped and Toyota decided not to continue. The Vibe was a sister of the Toyota Voltz that was a Japanese failure.

Toyota pulled out of NUMMI after GM suggested something, I can't recall now, but it was something similar to Democrats trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and Toyota said, "ENOUGH!!!"

Sorry, American made by an American corporation assembed in a CAW union plant in Ontario. Put in the vehicle by American UAW in California.

Japanese wouldn't import the crap I suspect.

And the Japanese versions aren't having any trouble.

There was the Toyota Voltz, which was a Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that was rebadged for sale in Japan. It sold poorly, around 10,000.

Jeff