2004 F150 - K&N Filter

Are we going to have to pull out the Twinkie demonstration to teach elementary school math in this group?

gawd, there goes the blood sugars . . . . now where did I leave my Avandia . . . .

Budd

You didn't notice the contradiction? "inhaling a large amount of mud" and "did not allow any to enter the engine"

Only a piece of chainlink fencing would allow much mud thru. Sheesh!!!

And most of the supposedly "cold air intakes" on the market are not cold air intakes. If the air being taken into the engine is from under the hood and not from a location where outside air is located and replenished faster than it can heat up, then it is not a cold air system.

Operational hood scoops are cold air intakes, including the Ford, GM and Mopar shaker scoops.

The 70's Olds 442 had a true cold air intake.

The few Ford T-Bolt clones had cold air intakes.

All racing cars have cold air intakes.

My 95 LeBaron GTC has a cold air intake.

Budd

Where did he say the flow into the filter consisted of 1/2 dirt and 1/2 air? We're not talking about SE Colorado dust storms from the 50's that could strip the paint right off a car and sandblast the windows into opacity here.

Quit looking for "rocket science", it'll give you a headache.

And you still misunderstand TranSurgeon . . . .no points for you. How can he prove what he never said?

Prove that for me.

Ok, I'll go slow for you . . . .you have 100 Twinkies but 6 are chocolate crème filled. I have the same before me. We're both diabetic and should limit our intake of carbohydrates.

You eat all 6 of the chocolate crème cakes, I eat 4 of them.

You "filtered" out only 97% of the total volume of Twinkies and I filtered out 98% of the total volume of Twinkies.

But you allowed 3% to wreck havoc with your blood sugars to my 2% . . or I consumed 2/3 of the Twinkies you ate.

Similar is true for the filters.

Budd

programmer...

So any possible performance increase is disguised by the increases from the other modifications . . .wow, that's just how the magazine guys do it and they also claim the K$N made the big increase . . right . . . . . . .

Send me the VIN from your truck so none of my Ford friends will accidentally buy it, please.

Budd

Let's see . . . .50K / 10K (I've lived in "low dust" climates and you had better still follow the reccomendations of the manufacturer) equals 5 filter changes @ $5 (at Wal-Mart) for a total of $25 . . . .wow, that sure bites into the beer money for 50k miles.

Now your FIPK cost what 300-400 dollars divided by 50k miles and your talking $60 to $80 for every 10K miles you drive . . . .

Man, I could take the missus out to a fancy dinner and a movie for $80 a whack.

But where's the savings???????

Ok, then how come my last truck, a 79 Dodge D-150 (318, auto, 3.55 axle) got

20+ with a two barrel carb and stock paper filter when Dodge rated the setup at no better than you got originally?

It's called sensible combination of parts and specifications: no cats ( not required in CO or UT), dual exhaust (Good ol glasspacks!), 360 degree 2-bbl intake from a 73 Dart, and tuned to 1968 specs with a tad more vacuum advance).

With you fuel injection, the only place any atomization takes place is just before and in the cylinder. More air would require the injectors to pump more fuel to keep the computer happy (remember the O2 sensor?), so your milage increase is because the intake is noisier and you now drive more genmtly because of the noise . . maybe you can't hear your cell phone over it?

Right . . .you're basing most of your opinion on advertising hype, which is usually far from factual.

Budd

T2 in that sucker?

Plasyd

>

????

_I_ am a Type 2 Diabetic with full driving priviledges, if that's what you mean. The car is a birthday gift from my eldest son.

Budd

Ok, my error . . .I think you were asking if I had an aftermarket cold air intake?

Nope, just the factory type, wheel well, cold air intake which picks up air from outside the engine compartment . . . .which was "modified", I guess, when the intake ducting to the aircleaner from the fender came loose and fell on the exhaust crossover pipe and melted (non-turbo 3.0 V-6). I replaced the damaged section with the cylindrical part of a Pepsi soda bottle and my Official McGuyver Repair Kit . . . .duct tape.

What do you think? The pop bottle's good for 50 or 60 horsepower?

Budd

You mis understood... when he said mud into the engine he means the intake of the engine.. use context clues dont be rediculous...

next thing... yeah cold air is more important... the way my setup is ... the K&N open element is setup it has the gasket that forms to the hood and the cold air (from highway) comes up through the front of the hood and up into the the filter....

There will always be people who dont want to try different things with their trucks or cars for some imaginary fear that they are really going to make things worse..

well i will try things with my truck because 1. I can affford it

1. After installing this FIPK I got better gas milege, even before other modifications.
2. I also dont need to replace the filter every 10k miles... i will clean when my filter appears dirty enough to need a cleaning...... by the way a dirty filter filters just fine... just wont let enough air through.... are we starting to get it now? Savings? hah... how about gas milege and the time for chaning your paper garbage filters every 10k miles... i dont have to touch mine for 50k (manuf. spec) even though i will take looks at it every 10k

hahaha. The old "I'm open-minded and people who don't do what I do are not" arguement. Before you classify me because I won't touch a a K&N filter with a ten foot intake tube, have a look at my Jeep:

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Aren't you really just trying to justify the expense of your K&N kit and reacting to those that have said you aren't doing your engine any favors? You've really fallen for the marketing hype, but of course you won't believe anyone that says so.

After 50K miles, be sure to check your intake tube for dust again.

Use better word phrasing to prevent misunderstandings. It's called "Grammar".

If the air flow you described, poorly, I might add, travels thru the heated air under the hood, it's not "cold" air. If it enters thru a hood scoop which opens directly to outside air, then it is.

ROTFLMBO!!!!!! As TranSurgeon could probably tell you, I'm not afraid to try anything new.

Let give a brief intro of myself: I'm 57, medically retired and living in SE Utah. I've have or have had; Polio, 8 heart attacks, Type 2 Diabetes, Post-Polio Syndrome, Arthritis, and an attitude towards misinformation that would make a Pit Bull jealous.

I've worked as an automotive, heavy equipment, and small engine mechanic, a career / employment counselor, a heavy equipment operator, an Army Staff Sergeant, and a small business owner (3 times). For a while, I had one regular customer for my automotive skills because none of the local Ford techs could do the work to his satisfaction.

I've flown small aircraft, raced automobiles, been a marathon class runner and set a record for the lowest Limbo done on roller skates by an adult at my hometown skating rink.

IOW, if I decide to try to do a thing, I usually succeed and I've never backed down from a challenge.

There's a difference between trying new things and falling for advertising hype.

K$N was called to task about their claims by the FTC a few years back, I haven't seen any reports on the outcome, but just the fact that there was an investigation should be cause to doubt their claims.

Gee, should I be impressed?? Sorry, but you'll have to walk _over_ water for me to be impressed. Put your plastic away. My farts are more dangerous. Money is never a substitute for common sense and/or logic.

One of my first cars was a 273 V-8, 1964 1/2 Barracuda. I flipped the aircleaner lid and the increase in noise made me back out of the carb . . .for a while. Then my mileage went right back down to it's normal, for a 20 year old in 1967, 11 mpg. My mom always got 23-24 mpg from that car . . . . . Hmmmm . . . .

This is where you show you fell hook, line and sinker for the K$N ads. The only places, check with your aviation buds, that there is EFFECTIVELY ZERO dust is at 30,000 ft altitude and above. Even in the middle of the Pacific ocean, thousands of miles from land, there is detectable dust. As dust builds up on any style airfilter, airflow drops. That's simple physics.

Over in a couple years ago, in a K$N thread, someone did some calculations based on OEM filter designs and the matching K$N design. The result was that, yes, the K$N could flow more air, but even the paper filter (a Fram, iirc) could flow more air at 10,000 miles than the engine required. So, where is the restriction claimed by K$N (Note the spelling)? Where the heck is the _NEED_ for so much flow? One of the aadt regulars succesfully races a Chevy . . .with a paper filter.

So, by those results, the K$N was merely a waste of money as well as adding more dirt to your engine.

Ya wanna talk gas mileage? How about 41.2 mpg from a 225 slant six in a 64 Valiant? Or 21.5 mpg from a 390 Ford in a 73 1/2 ton? Or 24.8 from a 383 in a 68 Plymouth Fury (an old land yacht)? Or the afore mentioned 20+ mpg from a 3900 pound 79 Dodge pickup (a brick has better aerodynamics!) with a 318?

Btw, all those engines had factory stock filters, no cold air systems and the only "mods" were very carfefully done tune-ups with low restriction exhaust systems, radial tires (none came from the factory with radials back then) and, on the truck only, a factory made intake manifold change.

What was that percentage of increase you got from that K$N? Calculate the increase (and only the increase) and see how long it will take to pay for that filter in gallons of gasoline or miles driven. Then remember that a paper filter from Wal-Mart, in mileage improvement alone, will take 1/10th the time, or possibly even less.

Budd

That's a nice Jeep, Matt.

What numbers did you get on the articulation ramp?

Budd

dust is at 30,000 ft altitude and above. Even in the middle of the Pacific

This is a common misconception. The amount of air that can flow into an engine is a function of the total of all restrictions (and other factors), not just the greatest restriction. If there is less restriction in the intake, there will be more flow - period (unless this changes some sort of resonance tuning that is employed in the intake tract). The increase in flow, depends on the amount of the other restrictions and may be small.

Thanks Budd, my AOL Instant Messenger screenname is RTI1182, you can probably guess what my score was. That shot was taken at my off-road club's annual truckshow, but as I am a club member I wasn't eligible for the award. :-)

I had a K&N stock replacement in the TJ for abouy 6,000 miles, until I noticed the dust film on the inside surface of the intake tube. Promptly replaced it with the OEM filter. The only difference I noticed with the K&N was it made more noise.

And you just misread what I said.

I said there were _CALCULATIONS_ done on the filters, that is total surface area, total restriction based on filter media per sq. in. in pressure drop, and then the volume of flow possible based on those figures. The filtering capacity is, of course, the function of orifice sizes. I have heard a couple unsubstantiated rumors that flow bench tests verify those calculations.

If the K$N style filter was all that good at filtering, then why are all the best biohazard filters made of paper?

Now, as to overall restrictions, yes, those must be taken into account if you're doing an engine buildup, but for someone looking for an easy cheap power mileage boost a change to a K$N will be disappointing. You'll gain more in mileage and performance with good maintenance practices.

Budd

I thought 1000 was the max score for a ramp. Btw, I live in Moab, Utah . . .to some it's off-roading Heaven, to others it's just Hell . . .

Have you seen the new sway bar disconnects that are supposed to come out on the new Powerwagons?

That has been the most common complaint about K$N over in alt.autos.dodge.trucks. Maybe if you can keep the tube completely free of any oils or liquids it wouldn't happen, but you have to wonder what's getting past and into the engine. . . .

One guy I heard about found a thin, but visible, coat of dust on his turbo's compressor blades on his less than year old Cummins and decided that was enough for him to get rid of his.

Nope, the only reason I would use a K$N is to filter contaminants out of machining lubricants.

Budd

Cool! A score of 1000 means your ramp travel equals your wheelbase. A built F250 may have more travel on the ramp (and that's being generous) but it will have a lower score due to the wheelbase. My TJ's wheelbase is about 98 inches, I think.

Very sweet, electric disconnect. Hopefully that will find its way onto a Super Duty off-road package soon. And maybe trickle down to the Jeep line before the Wrangler goes IFS.

Turbo 2, is what I meant. 2.2L 4cly, turbocharger with intercooler.

No, not what I meant. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Plasyd

Ok you sold me on the fact that a k&n will allow more air therefore dirt to enter the carb / FI.... depending on the engine type....

as far as a huge difference in dirt.. no i cant be sold on it.. reason is that I checked my intake tube @ 20K miles and theres not a spec in there....

The filter is beginning to show signs of (for lack of a better term) dirtyness...

Maybe it was a waste of money.... I personally however have seen a milege increase per gallon from 12.8 to 13.5 on average per gallon....

I did not change my driving habits, not many things will....

I plan on doing a low restrictive exhaust system after the warrentee period is over on my f250.... I also plan on installing a performance MAF sensor... why you may ask... because I like doing things and seeing the results for myself...

Youre right... there is not too many studies out there on K&N filters vs. paper for example...

what better way to test then for me to drive with one?

you said they use paper element in biomedical filters and the such... yes quite beleiveable... they filter better.... they are however more restrictave.. and if they get wet or damp they are garbage.. (sure they only cost 6$) but they take 15 minutes to swap then you have to dispose of the garbage....

If i find that later in my trucks life that dirt did enter the intake tube or there is dirt entering the intake tube... i will reinstall the stock filter.

As of now... im convienced I made the right move, I think my engine compartment looks better, I get better gas milege... and even though I cant prove it unless I dyno the truck I assume I am getting more power.

As for the future modifications..... a custom made exhaust system works well with a high flow intake... youre looking for flow ... so let the engine breathe... thats my goal...

anyway.. it seems you have led a busy life... some things would have scared me silly... but i bet after your experiences you have quite a different outlook...

I dont really know where what you said plays in... but it was a nice filler...