'88 Grand Wagon frame rusted

No disrespect taken, I understand you point about concerns of frame but one factor to consider in this is that "if" you got another frame you could sand blast it (if need be) and treat/paint it to extend its service life. Also while salt usage may be minimal in your area it is still humid vs areas like Texas and the rocky mountain states. BTW, when I was still in school my grandfather (who was a old Willys Jeep man) ordered and bought one of the first Wagoneers ever made in 1963 complete with the "Tornado" inline OHC 6 and automatic. It was a classic I wish I had gotten my hands on before he sold it on a whim over 20 years ago. (It only had 37K on it when he sold it)

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

You have just described the perfect scenario to rot out a gas tank skid plate. The plates are open which allows sand to get inside if you spin the tires even slightly. This salty sand hangs on any oil or in corners and corrugations and holds humidity. It gets wet every time you drive in the rain. I used a pressure washer for two full days on my frame to try and get all the sand out of it when I pulled the body off my CJ7. The stuck sand was a major factor in the frame rot areas.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

So given that you are right, and that the salt/sand got stuck in the nooks and crannies of the skid plate and held water against the frame, is this region of the frame easier to fix than perhaps somewhere else?

If it is the part I have in my mind, it is an 'easy' fix, well as 'easy' as any rotted bolt job is going to be. The skid plate unbolts from the frame. I did manage to get the bolts out of mine with some PB Blaster penetrant and an impact air gun. It took some doing and a pile of impacting, but only had to cut two of them.

Normally when the skid plate is that gone, so is the gas tank inside it unless you are lucky and have the poly tank like my 86 CJ has.

Our 88's gas tank and it's skid rotted out back about 7 or 8 years ago so I have had this happen to both of my Jeeps.

You can easily get a replacement skid plate. If that is it, I recommend some 1" holes in the bottom of the new one to let the sand out.

I hate guessing on something like that which is why I mentioned a digital camera or even a phone camera to show the area. You can email them to me and I will post them public if you want.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:50:32 GMT, "Mark Corbelli" wrote:

I can tell you a trick I have been using for many years to works really well. I have been running a few plow trucks for many winters and the salt can be really hard on them. I have a 79 J20 that I retired for plow duty a few years ago that has been in the salt in winter basically since it was new. It has not rusted away and frame is still in great shape with very little surface rust on it. What is my trick? Every spring and fall I spray the under side of truck and fender wells, brakelinesl and body seams with 90 weight gear oil in a paint spray gun. (I have even taken grill off to spray behind it and inside of door panels a few times and I even removed tail lights to spray up into bed/fender area. It seem to work better than rust proofing in that it does not trap moisure under it like rust proofing can nor does it hide rust like rustproofing can (it can look fine on surface and be eaten away underneath) The additives in gear oil attacks rust and has a lot of staying power and is hard to wash off (far better than motor oil) and it can get into seams where rust starts. The draw back is that your vehicle smells of gear oil for a few days or so and it is a bit messy to do but rewards are high. If I had not done this my old J20 would have rotted away many years ago. Except for a few smal rust areas the body is in great shape. I do this to my plow and salt spreading equipment too and it is still in fine shape after many seasons of use. I just put my plows in storage last week and I sprayed them down completely before placing them in barn and I can take then out in late fall and they look as they did when they went into storage. After you spray truck many times a residue films starts to form on metal parts than protect metal so sometimes you just need to just do a touch up. None of the chassi bolt on that old jeep are rusted one to this day and i can remove them if need be.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

I used to hear about "hot oil undercoating" when I lived in New England, but there isn't much call for it here in Colorado. I think they use something thicker than gear oil, and heat it up, but the same principle applies. Standard undercoating is a sound insulation product, not a rust-proofer.

Earle

In the old day they used to make 600W gear oil for old farm tractor gear boxes. Now straight 140 is about the heaviest you can find. The heavier it is the better. When I spray in warm weather I do not need to heat it and I use air siphon feed spray nozzle with air bleed to lspray a fan pattern that I can spray vertically or horizonally by rotated nozzle and to atomize oil into small droplets. In cold weather I heat the oil up before I spray it on.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Unfortunately that oil treatment won't work for the OP or anyone who off roads because we have to clean the undersides and frames to get the mud and sand out or oil or no oil, that sand pack will rot things.

It works well for street vehicles though.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail > >

Actually it will because when you see rust start to appear you can treat it plus water with not wash it off and it will take a few trips through mud to wash it out. Gear oil is tuff to wash off.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

It 'still' won't work because we have to clean under our vehicles.

When you put a spray washer to those oil soaked parts and now oil soaked sand or mud pack, the oil will wash out with it and make a really bad environmental mess in the driveway and out in the street where it drains every weekend. The government around here would freak on you and yes, the neighbors 'would' call to complain.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Earle, if you want to go to that extreme the simplest (and cheapest) way is to use roofing tar or roofing cement. That was an old-timer's trick in the the body shop trade in Texas. The tar contains enough distillates to penetrate surface/light rust and heating it lets it wick into crevasses. My two personal test cases: replaced the floor pans in an old Scout I bought up in Wisc. and coated all the seams with roofing tar. Drove the heap for

10 years and had to re-coat the exposed surfaces every 3-4 years as the tar sublimed but it stood the salt better than any of the near-by untreated surfaces.

The acid test was a swamp cooler. The bottom was rusting through so I dried it out, put a coat of roofing tar on the bottom pan. Sealed the leaks and salvaged the cooler for another 12 years of service. Yeah, I'm cheap but that tar does a great job for me. Of course, that doesn't get into the mess factor of working with it - have lots of mineral spirits on hand!

They still "oil" cars up here in New Hampshire. By law they use a clean straight 30 weight non-detergent oil. There is getting to be fewer and fewer places that do oil undercoat. Gear oil was never used as it stinks to high heaven.

We cross water and bog a lot, no one would want to leave an oil slick behind them, they wouldn't be welcome long....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail > They still "oil" cars up here in New Hampshire. By law they use a clean

Mike, is that 'rust converter' a brand name or a description? Is it a paintable finish, or is it a semi-permanent finish?

Merrill

I will have to go look in the garage and I will be in there in the next few days to be sure what it's name is.

I think it is 'rust converter'. It is a red colored product that is supposed to turn the rust to iron or steel or something like that. I bought it at Canadian Tire. It needs to be covered though, it is an undercoat.

I also used an industrial cold galvanizing spray on all the washer spacers I used for the mounts to level the 'glass body with the stock mounts and none of them have rusted either.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Red sounds like Naval Jelly

This is a gel with active ingredient phosphoric acid, pH 1. It reduces the rust to an alternate chemical form (another oxide?) that is physically more stable and can be painted. You can buy the phosphoric acid cheaper but the gel is easier to work with. When working with gel products, brush them on and cover with sheet plastic. This will let the gel work a lot longer before it dries out. This trick works great for paint remover too.

Earle

No, this coats like undercoating. I have used Naval Jelly. Too bad they had to mess with the formula to make it 'safer' because it barely works now.

Mike

Earle Hort> Red sounds like Naval Jelly

Might be something like this stuff:

or:

I have also used POR-15 as a rust preventative, and it has survived 7 Michigan winters on my truck frame so far with no rust at all. Just wear gloves when you use the stuff, or it takes 2-3 weeks for it to wear off your skin.

Chris

Earle Hort> Red sounds like Naval Jelly

Thanks Mike, Earle, Chris

I will check for the "rust converter" at CTC this weekend. I used something like that on my trailer hitch and painted it with Home Hardware Rust Coat. But it rusted through the paint in one winter. I guess I didn't get all the rust or else I used a similar product that wasn't as good.

I still have some of the original formula Naval Jelly. The new stuff is poor in comparison.

I wanted to try POR-15. I think I found it in the Eastwood catalogue, but I have no idea where to find it in Canada.

There is a good selection of Krown products at Home Hardware. The only one I have used is the oil spray. Anybody have experience with their other products?

I have 5 vehicles to work on so I can experiment.

OT, somebody bumped my wife's car in a parking lot about a month ago. No body damage, but the other car must have been filthy because it left some nasty scratches on the plastic bumper. I was hoping to use rubbing compound to try to clean it up. I have an XJ that has some overspray touch-up paint on the plastic flares. Is there a product that will solve both of these problems? Somebody recently mentioned in another thread that a clay bar could work. Any recommendations? Please suggest something that is available in Canada if possible.

Merrill