new wrangler - ug

i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since the first land rover started out as a jeep!).

im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins contract expires)

THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

Reply to
Nathan W. Collier
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Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world. I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better than the other. Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the Grand Cherokee?

I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done right?

Just trying to learn more and more. Thanks

Reply to
QX

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

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Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format that shows it if youre interested.

Reply to
Nathan W. Collier

Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"

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Reply to
billy ray

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction. Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage" would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new Wrangler.

You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid axle? Talk about picking nits.

Some people just don't like change.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable than ever before.

it isnt "more" important, but capability is what built jeep heritage. without the heritage, its just another 4x4.

the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep.

Reply to
Nathan W. Collier

Nate Dog! How have you been!?

I'm diggin my Rubi Unlimited. I've gone places I never could before, especially in AZ.

Personally, I like how they've kept the basic jeep context...but I won't be trading up basically due to the work I've put into my jeep. If I had one complaint of my jeep, it would be shoulder room. I'm actually hurting after a few hour ride. If the new one is 2" wider in the shoulder area, I'd be the first to admit I'd rather have it over mine... I'm almost afraid to sit in the new one.

Reply to
mark

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

My point being every redesign brings out the "Why don't they leave it alone" in a lot of people. Your comment about DC turning the Wrangler into a Land Rover wannabe made me remember that Land Rover had coils way before the Wrangler, so you could say they have been trying to do this for 10 years. I agree about the coils, but remember were lambasted when they were intro'd in the Wrangler, and time has proven their worth.

The 2-door JK's wheelbase (95.4") is only 2 inches longer than the standard TJ (93.4), so I would consider it qualifying as a SWB. Throw in a heftier Tcase with no more slipjoint on the output shaft, an electric swaybar disconnect, electric lockers (on the Rubicon), longer control arms, and other improvements in the design and you have the most capable off-the-sales floor Wrangler to date. Of course it comes with all the electronic crap like stability control but that has to do more with the consumer expecting it than the actual need for it.

I agree that the 4-door Wrangler is huge, but I think of that one as the

*true* replacement for the XJ, (or finally the incarnation of the Dakar concept) with solid axles, seating for 5 and a decent cargo area. That's why we might consider getting one in 08 or 09, once the bugs are worked out of the new model.

As for me, it will take a while to get used to the front fenders...they look like they are barely hanging on, and the front bumper is butt-ugly. And full doors with the top off look stupid. That said I've seen pre-production JK Wranglers all over SE Michigan for months now, believe me, even from a distance you can tell it's a Wrangler.

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Caught it in the paper today... '07 is the last year for the 2-door Wrangler.

Dan

Naperville, IL

Reply to
dvitous

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

I don't believe it, your paper is wrong or you misunderstood what they said.

O7 is the first year for the 4 door Wrangler, but there is no way they are getting rid of the "iconic" 2 door.

I don't know if it's possible to overestimate the stupidity of the DC management but even they can't be THAT stupid!

Jeff DeWitt

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Reply to
Jeffrey DeWitt

Granted... I am the product of the public school system... but regardless of what part of the world you're from... (perhaps with the exception of some certain parts of some southern states...) it's pretty hard to misinterpret:

"The 2006 Jeep Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered with only two doors."

It goes on to say

"The 2007 Wrangler soon arrives with availability of its first four-door model, a V-6 engine instead of the traditional inline (cylinders all in a row) six-cylinder and the chance to get rear-wheel drive instead of the standard four-wheel-drive setup."

Full article is here:

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Could be wrong? Sure. But reliable auto writers typically dance around "absolutes" when talking rumor - as there's always plenty of rumor to go around. It runs rampant in the motorcycle press. But '07 is a ways away, and decisions could change. Perhaps its an announcement to gauge backlash?

Dropping a popular, well-selling vehicle with a strong fan base doesn't make sense to me either.

- Dan -

Reply to
dvitous

This is paragraph two from that new report:

"The 2006 Jeep Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered with only two doors. The 2007 Wrangler soon arrives with availability of its first four-door model, a V-6 engine instead of the traditional inline (cylinders all in a row) six-cylinder and the chance to get rear-wheel drive instead of the standard four-wheel-drive setup."

You could also take this to mean that in future years '07+ that both 2 and 4 door models are slated for production.

Reply to
billy ray

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