The problem I have with the input shaft of the T18 dragging is diagnozed.
I went to a tranny shop (a guy that does conversions etc) and let him take a look at it.
Apparently the pressure plate does release, but according to him it is very little and when things heat up because of friction there is not enough space for the clutch disc to spin freely.
According to him I just have the "wrong" clutch for this application an besides that the clutch (according to him) is way too stiff.
He recommended a "Luk" clutch. it is a high end diafragm clutch. it should give more clearance and easier to operate too.
does anyone have experience with this kinda clutch ? (or ..*S* what are you using in your 258 - T18 with T150 bellhousing combination ?
Stock jeep clutch for 77-79 with T150 tranny. The clutches for the 1980+ CJs are "shorter" (dimension from flywheel to pressure plate (I know there is a technical description for this measurement but I forgot what it is) - hence the symptoms you describe. Much cheaper than a Luk or Centerforce clutch, and better pedal feel than with a Centerforce.
How do I know this? I have the 258/T150 bellhousing/T-19 combination. I had the same problem when I replaced my Centerforce clutch a few years ago (hated the pedal stiffness offroad) and used the part # for an '83 model year (my jeep). I called Advance Adapters, described my problem, and asked what clutch I needed if I didn't want the Centerforce they usually recommend - was told "any brand clutch" for 77-79 Jeep with T150. Put that in and it has worked fine since.
Sure I do. When I had my sand jeep in the early '70s I ran a Muncie "rockcrusher" behind a Ford "Boss 302." Can't remember what kind of clutch I used, but I definitely remember my left leg muscles getting so fatigued when holding the pedal down that my thighs would burn and my leg would quiver from exhaustion. Sometimes I did have to hold my knee down with my hands. I didn't like stiff clutch pedals then, and don't like 'em now.
That's what I thought too, and so did several clutch experts, including a NASCAR engine builder. Turned out not to be the linkage or the fork at all (replaced both with new - for no benefit). Using a clutch for a '79 CJ-7 with T-150 tranny solved everything. (Same as the clutch for a J20 with Jeep T-18)
thanks for your answer. May I ask what the price is of the clutch you bought ? According to the tranny place the Luk clutch they recommended is going to cost approx $175.
Here's my thoughtprocess. The flywheel is a flat disk (in that CJ) so when I have a correct working clutch then it should work. correct ?
I can imagine the linkage doesn't have enough throw and when the wrong clutch is used it doesn't go to the point of "maximum release"
But I already messed with that, changing the linkage so it has more throw. But still it does the same thing.
I am just wondering if the place where I got the clutch I have now maybe gave me a clutch that was wrong and that maybe the clutchdisk is too "thick" for the pressure plate used ?
Anyway, I am going to take the Jeep apart (again). What I am wondering though ..... when I put a new clutch in and again it isn't working .... can I return it and say "this one isn't working for the application I told you I needed it for. (or is it like, you bought it...it's yours.
Can't remember now, but less than $175 (I get a mechanic's discount from my parts man). However, Luk makes good stuff and $175 retail is not out of line for a quality clutch assembly. Did you check prices for the same part # at Summit Racing? Caveat: Although Summit might be less, due to the difficulty you are having in diagnosing your problem, you might be better off buying your parts locally, even if a few $ more, so you can take advantage of your supplier's expertise. (As a matter of principle, I am opposed to soliciting free advice from local merchants/repair experts and taking their time, only to buy "cheap" somewhere else.)
As for returning the clutch after install - only if your parts man will take it back on "warranty" and label it "defective" so he can get a credit from his supplier.
If your are going to pull the clutch one more time - set the clutch assembly you remove on a workbench next to one spec'ed for a '79 with T150 tranny and look to see if they are the same "height" off the bench. If the height is different, or there are any other visible differences, install the unit for a '79. If they are the same, you have a different problem and you may want to return the unused clutch.
It is possible, although unlikely that you have a bent or warped clutch fork. When that was suggested to me, I looked at 5 or 6 used ones and although none appeared to be "bent," none of them exactly matched any of the others making it impossible to know which was warped, if any, or whether any/all/none were outside specs. If you suspect a warped fork, see if you can compare yours to a new fork.
Finally, did you have your flywheel resurfaced? If not, take it to the machine shop and have it done.
Oh I don't even mind paying the guy that looked at my clutch labour and a tip and buy the new clutch from him IF it is going to work.
I don't even mind buying the brand he likes, even if it is a different style (diafragm instead of the 3 finger type). If it is going to work I am wulling to spend a few extra $$$. (the swap was already expensive enough, so you probably see my point. However paying 500-600 for have someone else do it (price is that high because it is a conversion / custom job) is a little too much. Besides, the thing is my hobby.. so I want to understand what I am driving.
right: But when I ask the parts store that I want a clutch for that application, 258 - T150 bellhousing - Borg Warner T18 for a '79 CJ5 then I should get a clutch that works ... or get the "we don't carry that" answer, right ?
I hope it is one more time.... ;-)
do you mean the height between the friction surface of the pressure plate and the bench ? Uhm when the clutch is off the flywheel there's no way you canmeasure that.. correct ? or do you mean the overall height ?
ahhh so if the clutch looks exactly the same, I have another problem.. gotcha.
Ok, I can check with another clutchfork. However, when the T150 was still in there it worked just fine.
yes I had it resurfaced before I put everything back together.
thanks for your suggestions. It is better to have more tips/tricks and things I can look at before throwing money at parts I don't need.
I must say this is a really good news groups. Helped me a lot with things I had in the past and I am sure it will too with this "tranny thing".
Ask for a clutch for a '79 CJ-7 with T-150 transmission. Since there were both V-8 and inline 6 engines in '79, you might want to confirm that the clutch part numbers are the same for both engines. My recollection is that they are the same. If you ask for what you actually have (258/T-150 Bellhousing and T-18 tranny), the parts guy won't have a clue what you are talking about because there are no such animals in his parts book.
You need to measure the mark on the flywheel from the last clutch.
What was originally in there has no bearing 20 or more years later in a Jeep.
Or get the flywheel turned 'flat' and buy an all new clutch and pressure plate of either size.
The pressure plate will also be bigger if the clutch is bigger.
I just helped a friend do his and got asked the same so measured... the damn plate was 10.75". Go figure. We went with the 10.5" to be on the safe side....
No clue where the last clutch and pressure plate came from. This was an 'imported' 4 speed tranny put into an 82.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
I had 'no' freaking idea that ding in the nose piece of the tranny would cause that burn out when I did a frame up rebuild on my CJ7!
I did just save another Jeeper the same headache by ID'ing the ding as the reason his pressure plate got burned out just like mine so that was a cool thing to learn...
It was -25C when we did the job.....
Instead of him just replacing his clutch like I did just to burn it out fast like I did, he learned to replace the nose piece or 'bearing retainer' cone with the burned out pressure plate.
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