Why Jeeps suck.

your in the wrong place to stop people here from buying Jeeps. Although man of us own non DC jeeps Many more own DC built products, and it would take more than someone taken to the cleaners by an unscroupulous salesman (not many of those) to change our minds... PS thanks for the laughs.

Perhaps you should do more research on your intended vehicle than just watching the ads on TV...

I have about 10 minutes experience with the IRS on the 660 and it felt squishy - I rode it in the parking lot at the dealer. What I noticed was when taking fairly sharp turns you would get too much body roll and you had to corner more like a 3-wheeler than a quad. Typically with a quad, the outside front dives and the inside rear dangles on a hard corner and you have a better feel for its limitations. With the Grizzly, you get full body roll to the outside and by the time you reach the point of no return, there is nothing you can do to save it. I'm sure with technique and experiance you could throw the Grizzly around like a swingarm setup but it's not foolproof.

At 30-40 km/h the Grizzly felt REALLY squishy. I know it's not a racer but I had a Kodiak 400 doing 85 km/h on a loose gravel / sandy trail and it felt like it was on rails. I was also REALLY impressed with its lateral stability... while climbing one of those trails we all avoid in the Jeeps -

Granted, the IRS would excell in really rugged terrain... logs/rocks... but I think the Kodiak 450 might be a better fit for me. I like technical trails AND flat out 2wd white knuckle fun! Maybe I need a Raptor AND a Grizzly LOL.

-Brian

Overactive gullibility gland... bought the advertising AND the sales pitch. How old are you?

Hey, my TJ didn't hatch from an egg, so even if I didn't build it, someone did...

Why should they? Chrysler is expected to do one thing, and that's try to sell product. Educating people is far, far behind that in importance. A sale's a sale.

dont you mean "flexy"? :-) articulation does have its price.

ultimately thats all that matters! my arctic cat is the slowest 500 class quad built but i didnt buy it for racing anyway. those same guys that tease me about being so slow get left behind when the going gets really rough, and thats when my lil' cat comes to life. its a real shame arctic cat dropped the ACT suspension option on the '03 models, its _really_ similar to a jeep suspension and very effective when the going gets rough.

NOW youre talking!

Just don't expect any other car manufacturer to be different. Enjoy your walk.

How about looking at it next to a TJ or asking someone who has been off road before. My wife's comment when she saw her first Libby, "Cute", her comment when we bought the TJ, "Lest go see what it will do" She had never been off road before and she could tell the Libby was designed for the local mall and occasional forays on unimproved roads/trails, not serious rough stuff.

Anyone who believes marketing hype will learn a lesson. If indeed your story is true (as hard as it is to believe) I'm sorry your lesson was so expensive. Dave Shannon (Spring Valley CA) '01 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Any damage done because a rock scraped across the bottom of your Jeep is the same has having an accident and hitting something. They are not responsible. Second, every SUV promotes how far it can go off road. I've seen commercials for Expeditions with them off road. Would you take one of those to Moab?

It's no secret to the hoards of Jeep owners that Jeep is losing marketshare due to the number of "crossover vehicles" and massive Tahoe and Expeditions due to the market's realization that they never actually take them off road, but rather use the 4wd system in the snow and the vehicle as a modern "station wagon". Therefore, DaimlerChrysler has seen fit to begin a 2 pronged attack on the market. They make truely off road vehicles like the Wrangler and they make "station wagons" that sell off the legendary off road capability of vehicles they've made in the past - such as the CJ's, Wranglers, and Cherokees - like the Liberty. The Grand Cherokee has been designed to go off road better than the Liberty has, but it's days are numbered for that use as they're currently designing an IFS for it too. It costs DC a lot of money go build truely off road capable vehicles and that means the prices of those vehicles are on the high side compared to similar, less capable vehicles by Ford, GM, and the foreign makes. Therefore, they've opted a different approach.

If you truely wanted to go off road, you should have done a little research into what you should have bought. You should have picked up a few copies of JP, Off Road, 4WD & Sport Utility, & Four Wheeler and paid attention to the pictures to see what other off roaders on those Jamborees and off road excursions are driving. You'll see a few Grand Cherokees, quite a few more Cherokees, and a whole lot of Wrangler/CJ's. You'll also see some first gen Broncos, Scouts, Toyota SR5/Tacoma's and other vehicles scattered around, but you won't see Liberties there. If you do, they won't be going over boulders, but rather be limited to gravel roads and grassy fields. You should have also paid attention to how their vehicles are modified. Do they run "nerf bars" and light bars? You'll find a few, but by far, most won't. Do they have their vehicles lifted? Extra skid plates? Winches? There's what helps off road, not light bars...

Also, people modify their Jeeps so heavily you'd think they could leap tall buildings in a single bound, yet they scrape them, bust radiators, break suspension pieces, and break down all the time. It's unfortuately part of off roading if you're going to challenge yourself and your vehicle.

Have you seen any vehicle in a commercial doing anything (unless it's tongue-in-cheek) other than driving up a dirt road? The only commerical I saw was for the Rubicon that had it going over boulders, and it can do all they claim with the right driver.

Next time you see a commercial for a Chevy Tahoe, Ford Explorer, Toyota 4 Runner, or whatever and it has the vehicle driving on some dirt road somewhere, you should demand a retraction from the manufacturer and boycott their products too, since it's a joke seeing anything like that on a trail! Electronic descent control? What a joke!

Again, you should have done your research.

Lastly, off road driving is more technique than vehicle, though your choice of vehicle is important. You should have learned how to do it before you did by taking some very basic stuff and realizing that driving around that rock would be better than driving over it. You should also be aware of things like your minimum ground clearance, approach angle, departure angle, and breakover angle if you don't want to scrape and do damage. Then, when you see a rock that sticks up at least 12" and you only have 8" of ground clearnance, you either need to stick a tire over it or drive around it, not straddle it and have it hit the front diff cover and bust it, or tear the exhaust off, or something.

This is in no way DaimlerChrysler's fault!

Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army and said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side of the road where they got stuck.

If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do that...

Yep.

If that's the case, you should walk.

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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This guy has given the group the satisfaction of confirming the demise of Chrysler, which we have been banging on about since the Liberty came out..

If he's a troll, then so are we all !!

Approximately 8/13/03 21:56, Kenneth Garman uttered for posterity:

I don't have access to a Daimler Chrysler catalog at the moment, but since you seem like such a smart young feller, I do have several other items of extremely high value available for such a discriminating buyer as you.

All of the following offers are true, and nowhere in my catalog will you find any statements to the contrary.

How would you like to be the proud proprieter of your very own bridge? It has a great location connecting two major urban centers and is arguably one of the most desireable bridges in the world based purely on the number of buy and sell offers.

Are you interested in your very own wetlands refuge? The ducks, geese, snipe, and muskrats are optional, but the property has promise...

No, wait, you seem more the type to invest in fine equestrian properties. I have this highly experienced and gentle gelding to offer...incapable of biting...

"The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the Japanese." Wouldn't that make the Japenese the worst and not the Germans??? Besides, everbody knows that the WORST drivers are minivan drivers... I rented one once and I felt my driving skills drop 30-40%