I know one or two on here live in France. Mother has a spare washing machine that she wants to transfer to our house in France, apart from the difference in plugs, is there any reason it would not work out there? The house has had new electrics prior to purchase.
-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."
To reply direct rot13 me
bURRt the 101 Camper
It should.
Mains there is officially 230V plus or minus 10%, as against what used to be 240V here, plus 5% or minus 10%. It's officially now the same both sides of the channel in spite of the actual values not changing, due to some political chicanery. The voltage ranges are compatible, (207 - 253 at the limits) unless the equipment's really old, in which case, it's probably not worth taking over. The motors may run a touch warmer, and the heater may take a touch longer to heat the water. The new installation in France should have MCBs for each circuit and an RCD for the whole installlation, so it'll be safe, at least. Just be aware that Live and Neutral aren't clearly marked on French plugs, and check the wiring of the socket, as reversed live and neutral aren't unknown.
thanks. Live and neutral being swapped sounds like fun!! Have got a reverse polarity tester for camping in France, will have to take it with us!
-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."
To reply direct rot13 me
bURRt the 101 Camper
Our last site had reversed polarity last year... I have a lead that I slot in just for such occasions to swap the polarity back again.
Don't sweat it Simon, get it shipped out sharpish :-)
It is a good idea to take your GB machine to France, it is little known that machines manufactured for different locals can be programed differently (though they are mechanicaly identical) and therefore the wash is not what is expected. Our kit will work any where in the EU (BUT the locals using a GB machine can ruin a wash through the different programing and visa versa)
Regards
John
I've found reverse polarity in about 50% of the sites I have been to in France. One thing to watch - if you are using French kit, it doesn't matter, as most equipment uses twin-pole switches, which cut both live and neutral in the off position. UK kit usually has single pole, just cutting the live. So if you are using UK stuff, you need to check the polarity first - don't just assume.
Not that you would ...
Are you suggesting that we can no longer mix coloureds and whites on a boil wash in France?......... thats it then.. I'm not going....
;-)
Lee D
They banned that sort of thing in Seth Efrica years ago.
On or around Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:16:37 -0000, "Rich B" enlightened us thusly:
Reversed polarity shouldn't make any odds unless you're poking around the internals of the machine, when things could be live unexpectedly. There shouldn't be scope for electrocution if the thing's in good order, otherwise.
If reversed polarity loads affected the grid, you'd expect them to be more bothered about getting it right.
A neutral chassis fault with the polarity wrong won't blow the plug top fuse in the live or any fuse in the appliance either...
But *IIRC* France does not use our ring main system but lots of spurs direct from the CU and the "neutral" is not bonded to earth, hence the lack of polarity conciousness. An either "phase" fault to earth just drags that phase down to earth and the rises relative to earth. You *might* get bangs and sparks when there is another fault that connects the other phase to the same earth or the earth potential could rise or the phases.
I'm not quite sure how they protect things from fault overloads, as the power could come from either phase. Are French MCBs double pole?
On or around Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:01:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:
damned if I know. However, internally, in a device, the most-common difference is that the neutral doesn't go through the switch. If it's a metal device it's generally got an earthed chassis and if it's double-insulated you shouldn't get attached to the live bits without taking it apart. Plugtop fuses are notorious for not blowing, too: it needs something shorting to earth (or neutral) to blow it in less than several minutes.
do those round euro-plugs have fuses?
France is a radial or daisy chain system, with a limited number of sockets depending on whether you have used 1.5mm (5 sockets) or 2.5 mm (8) cable. The consumer units are double pole, whether fused or MCB, but you must have an RCD of 30ma sensitivity as there are no fuses in the plugs.
Earth cabling must be the same thickness as the live and neutral wires, which means that UK ring main cable is illegal in France
They also charge you according to what kind of demand you wish to place on the system, starting at 6kw upto 15kw.
The system setup does seem to be safer than UK (double pole isolates neutral as well as live), although the current supplied does fluctuate more, you are recommended to fit UPS's or surge protetcors to sensitive kit such as PC's
-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."
To reply direct rot13 me
bURRt the 101 Camper
Aye well, if they're going to cross up live and neutral, I'd want DP isolators too. Main incomers are DP here, beyond that, the sparky is supposed to be competent...
Ring mains are much more practical, and save a lot of copper and resources.
Steve
IIRC, 20mA through the heart is fatal.
It's not the live-neutral reversal that would worry me as much as the lack of earth bonding. Because of that, if you get a live chassis fault, it'll sit there waiting for you, then you've gotta hope the RCD trips before you get more than 19mA in the wrong place. The point of our low earth Z system is that if the RCD doesn't trip, a fuse/MCB should anyway.
Also, you'd get a nasty voltage drop on long daisy chains of 1.5mm cable especially if there was high demand on the first few sockets. IIRC, the French version of the Schuko connector (CEE 7/5) is rated at 16A, so you could easily max. out the fuse box's MCB on one socket (of 5).
But that's trivial compared to deddin yersel.
Can be. AIUI, it's dependent on the point in the heart's beat cycle that the shock is experienced. At one moment, it could be a nasty jolt, a millisecond later, it could be fatal. It's largely a matter of luck.
It's the volts that jolts, and the mills that kills, or something. I've been told it was 30mA rather than 20, but either way it's not something you'd do for fun.
It depends on age and state of health too. A healthy adult can take more than 20mA, in extremis. A child, maybe less.
Steve
I don't like this new found faith in RCDs either. Too many bits.
Steve
Well not routinely or even repeatedly!
So in simple terms... one shouldn't stick there tongue across it to check if its live? Is that what you are saying? I'll make a note of that.
:-)
Lee D
If your heart is in your mouth, then it wouldn't be a good idea for sure, but if it was, I reckon you'd have other concerns!
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