saw the new disco yesterday !!!!

Have you ever driven or seen one offroad?

Also, remember Land Rover make money out of people who buy a vehicle they think is really cool and would be great if they ever took it offroad. They do NOT make money out of people who *need* a vehicle which will cope with every situation they throw at it. Or they didn't, until Defender started to turn a profit last year.

If nobody ever took a LR off road again, it wouldn't hurt LR one little bit. It's the perception which is everything.

Maybe I should send the EU a design for a nice comfy chair to be bolted onto the rad grille, so the pedestrian can sit down a while too....

That surprises me. Apart from grounding out I've been pretty impressed with the Freebies I've seen. Did he have lousy tyres?

I actually don't agree on that one, potential buyers see the Army, most farmers and other serious off-road users in the UK using Defenders for work off-road and that gives the rest of the LR range serious off-road (and rugged) street credibility whether deserved of not. That is why in LR showrooms you always see a Defender, it's the vehicle that gives the brand it's real tough 4X4 image.

My point was, LR don't make money out of people using them offroad, they make money out of people who think they *could* be used offroad. The offroading is essential to maintain the image but doesn't make them anything directly. Even the MoD contracts seem to be a thing of the past.

It was interesting to hear one of the top men (if only I could remember which) saying that Defender was no longer the standard-bearer for the company. The whole company is building itself around the Range Rover brand - much more profitable and more sustainable in the modern world.

When you stand in the plant and watch the two being built it isn't hard to see why...

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

The Top Brass at LR (Ford) may say that, probably because they are having terrible trouble designing a proper Defender replacement to cover all the roles the present one does, but they don't have control over the attitudes of their purchasers and will need to spend a great deal of money on advertising/persuading if they want to change things.

On or around Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:15:28 -0000, "Bob Hobden" enlightened us thusly:

's true. but I'll bet they sell more defenders than Range Rovers, even so. The main problem with the Defender is the fact that it's ridiculously labour-intensive to build, and that costs money. I suspect that if the "classic" Defender is to survive, it'll have to be built abroad where people are cheap. The replacement is apt to be more like a Ford truck, with king cab and window hardtop versions... which, in truth, ain't far from what we already have in the Defender - do ford trucks (F150 etc) have a separate chassis? I'd have thought there'd be a lot of mileage in a marriage between a Defender-style chassis with it's excellent suspension and a pressed body... which is after all the way Toyota et al make their trucks. I suspect it's the final assembly part of the LR which is so much hassle. I've no doubt the chassis can be welded up by robots, ditto the body. But IMHO the main strength of the Defender is the chassis/suspension package.

And exactly how the new Discovery is being made - separate chassis, independent suspension and a few tricks to give it the ground clearance.

A tougher bodied Discovery, with at least one beam axle and fewer electronic tricks and a modular rear body (though not from bolt-together panels) to support truck cab, station wagon etc seems like the obvious 'new Defender' option to me.

Agreed. You only need to look on the road to see how many pick-up sales Land Rover are missing out on, particularly it seems to me, in the construction trade rather than necessarily agriculture.

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

He had quite agressive tyres - but the main point is that the vehicle simply could not get over the bumps, clear ruts, or have enough approach/departure angle. It did very well at wading though, which surprised us all!

Richard

Even in central London dealer forecourts, like the one in South Kensington! The recent Top Gear vote result is having an effect, methinks. I overheard a bunch of young drivers (probably aged 17-18) only yesterday, whilst sitting in a branch of a well known American fried chicken restaurant, talking about cars and one of them pipes up "I'd drive a Defender - they're kewl"! The rest of the gang agreed! Makes a refreshing change from the typical boy-racer image!

Ah, but do they make the profit on the pricing of the Range Rover or does it really cost that much to make?

They're going out of production at the end of this year :-(

Which hints at the new model not being "that type of vehicle"!

"badge" wrote in news:bpfa3t$2lb$ snipped-for-privacy@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk:

I've seen the new Disco twice now in Belgium, between Antwerp-Hasselt- Liege (perhaps someone from the Ford factory in Genk?) You can find some pictures (by someone else) at

regards, Gerard

On or around Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:06:10 +0000, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:

aye. Mind, the 110 pickup is pretty much like the Toyota et al. I assume it's more pricey, 'cos you don't see many around.

These Truck vehicles are more fashion statement than practical everyday vehicles IMHO. The new change in the way they are taxed from 'business' vehicles to private will probably have quite an effect on sales....

The tax makes a massive difference. Mandy quite liked the Nissan Navarra and I would have opted back into company cars and had one (tuppence hapenny in tax each year) if there had been a bit more room in the back. But the baby seats didn't fit, so no dice. I quite liked it too - a great dog vehicle with the hard-top fitted, as all the smells are separate (but the dogs are getting used to it now anyway).

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i