Wanted: Locking wheel nuts

Warren was telling me yesterday that he got a set of genuine ones (but not in a genuine parts box) from Autopost for a very good price.

They were for his P38 Range Rover BTW.

Bought a set of 4 from paddocks last week for £19.50 + vat. Those were for deep dish alloys buy they do all sorts.

Hope this helps, Fergus

Thanks for the pointers guys. I was horrified to see them for £42 in Rimmers!

I'll give these fine people a call tomorrow :-)

Regards Steve G

...and here's me systematically REMOVING mine!!! Annoying bloody devices created by the devil to stop the OWNER of the vehicle removing a wheel. Oh well.

Neil

Neil, I know EXACTLY what you mean but I'd hate to come back to the Discovery one evening and find it on blocks where some thieving f***er has nicked the wheels.

Regards Steve G

Just as a matter of interest, has anyone had first-hand experience of something like this happening? It kinda puts me in mind of the "Mobile phones cause petrol stations to explode" myth.

To put it another way, if I was an enterprising 'nick stuff to order' kind of thief (which I'm not), I reckon it'd be quicker, easier and less chance of being caught to steal the whole vehicle and worry about getting the wheels off once I had it somewhere safe.

- Andrew

Andrew,

My philiosophy is if they can get the wheels off, they can have them. Good luck to them...we had my heavily modified (re - armored!) Disco on a 3 ton hydraulic lift, and it struggled big style to lift Piglet!!!

Neil

(The Fun, Friendly and FREE 4x4 club!) (Pics of Piglet andstuff)

Why do you think that's a myth? Hold your mobile phone next to an earthed lump of metal (for example a petrol pump nozzle) and you can easily induce a spark.

I have mixed feelings about locking nuts. I had some on my Nissan

200SX, and at one of my (very regular) tyre changes found 3 nuts were finger tight. As the lock nuts were not really obvious we assume that the thief undid three before realising he couldn't shift the fourth and legged it.

Not good really....

I think it's a myth because this place;

says so, and they generallyseem to know what they're talking about.Any chance you could give a bit more specific instruction on mobile phonespark generation?

- Andrew

I didn't say it has happened. But it is just basic physics that a radio transmitter can cause sparks near metal. You need quite a short distance between the two, and it depends on the power of the transmitter etc.

Put a fork in your microwave if you still have doubts...

I would imagine anybody going to nick some wheels has to have some tools - namely a breaker bar and an assortment of sockets. Now, while they are stocking up at the local auto tool shop, they can easily ask for a set of anti-theft wheel removers as well.... no eyebrows raised they are a common as mud item. Very effective at removing locking wheel nuts.... after I lost the tool for removing the wheels on one vehicle I drive I purchased a set for about 18(?) quid and they were every bit as effective as a socket on the nuts. All anti-theft wheel nuts seem to do is add another item for drivers to worry about - where did I leave the removal tool?! Do you really want to have to spend time searching for it when you're stuck on a hard shoulder?

Regards

William MacLeod

Make a coil out of some old copper wire, connect to a bulb and move a magnet around in the coil - its pretty much the same thing.

Richard

Why not just use a hammer and cold chisel - much easier :)

Richard

On or around Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:23:23 +0000, richard.watson enlightened us thusly:

however, it's pretty darn unlikely, even so.

there's as much risk of dropping the phone, dislodging the battery and making a spark that way, AIUI.

even if you make a spark by using the phone, you also have to have the right concentration of petrol vapour in the air at the same time and place.

think about the fact that if the mixture is a bit wrong in yer engine, it'll not run - it's possible that spark-ignitable mixture exists in the immediate vicinity of the filler neck on the car, as it's being filled. On anything other than a dead-calm day, though, the petrol vapour will be blown away and diluted to "too-lean" very quickly, I would think. what snopes actually says is this (among other stuff):

-------

According to some experts there is a danger that using a mobile phone near gas pumps could touch off an explosion, but not only have we found no real-life instances of such an explosion occurring, we don't know anyone who has demonstrated experimentally that it's even possible (including the folks at The Discovery Channel's Mythbusters program). Even so, gas pumps in Australia bear stickers cautioning motorists to turn off their phones while refueling; Shell in Malaysia has affixed similar stickers to each of its gas pumps; numerous pumps in the U.S.A. are similarly adorned; Canada's major gas pump operators have banned customers from using mobile phones while at the gas pump; and the city of Cicero, Illinois, recently passed the first law in the USA banning the use of cellular phones at gas stations.

Cellular phone manufacturers Nokia and Ericsson have said that the risk is very small that something will happen, but since there is a risk, it should be counted. Nokia also said that the company has been recommending for a long time that the mobile phones should be turned off while the car is being refueled. What it is about a cellular phone that could possibly trigger an explosion is difficult to fathom, however. The claim that the batteries used in a cellular phone can ignite gasoline seems specious, since cellular phone batteries are the same voltage as automobile batteries (12V D.C.) but deliver far less current. Likewise, the claim that a "cellular phone ringer uses more than 100 volts for excitation" is a curious artifact of the "regular" telephone era: cellular phones don't have ringers; they produce audio tones that simulate the sound of a ringing telephone.

In a world where people are increasingly unwilling to allow even the possibility of something going wrong, however, we're bound to see even more regulations "protecting" us from yet another non-existent threat.

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which ain't quite the same as saying it can't happen.

On or around Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:20:06 +0000, William MacLeod enlightened us thusly:

how bulky os the said item?

the only ones I had to get removed without the key (cos some idiot[1] had overtightened 'em, and the key broke instead of undoing the nuts), they were on alloy wheels, and the nuts on this design are in a deep recess, such that only a socket will go in there - there's not much clearance, maybe about

1/4" between the nut-corners and the wheel. Got 'em off by welding a large nut (old driveshaft nut) to the top of them, and at that, it took several attempts on one of 'em. [1] no, not me, in this case...

The company that owns the place I work (who are the 2nd largest motor retailer in Britain and being taken over to become the largest in Europe) issued a memo about this "an employee was removing the fuel tank from a car when his phone rang, there was a loud bang and he burst into flames" the chap survived albeit a little toasted he didn't smoke and there was no other apparent reason for it

I personally don't see a danger but this did make me think so I tend to err on the cautious side as me and fire don't go together that well

Andy

If you place a phone near, for example, my computer, just before it rings you will get a series of pulses soundng on the computers speaker as the phone and network establish communication. That is a voltage being induced the speaker wiring, i.e. a voltage is being created by the phone, which in this case happens to be audible. Wherever there is a voltage, there is a chance of a spark.

Getting petrol to burn in atmosphere, and getting it to burn inside and engine in a very controlled manner are two entirely different matters.

mmmmmm I think the author needs to read up on inductors - very simply, if you make and inductor, i.e. a coil of wire, and apply a small voltage to it then the world is a wonderful place. However, if you then remove the voltage, then brefily, as the voltage accross the coil collapses, a very much larger voltage is created, its magitude being proportional to the number of turns in the coil (simply speaking). You have a fine example of this in your car (assuming it's petrol, of course) - the coil! It turns 12v into many thousands of volts every time the points open. Current is not overly important in the creation of the spark. If you make a coil with a lot of turns and apply 1.5v from a small AA or whatever battery through a bulb with a join held together, don't volenteer to be the one to be holding the wire ends in each hand as they are parted!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The underlined bit reads to me as saying they say it can't!

Richard

I'd agree that it's basic physics, but you need to combine that with basic statistics - there's a big difference between "happens all the time, and has happened several times already" and "has a very, very small chance of happening". People are very reluctant to say "Can't possibly happen", since there's always that vanishingly small chance. The world record for a person being struck by lightning is about 7 times. I'm not too worried about getting struck by lightning though. Anyway, this is getting a little bit away from the original point....

What I was trying to say was this : It has never been recorded that a mobile phone near a petrol pump has caused an explosion, yet there are a lot of people who believe that it has happened and that it's a likely thing to happen.

I was asking if the "people jacking up your car and nicking the wheels" story is similar, in that nobody knows of anyone it's happened to, but everyone's sure it's happening all the time, or if anyone has actually had first hand experience of this. You know it could just be clever marketing on the part of locking wheel nut manufacturers. In much the same way that my spoiler theft prevention kit (tm) when available will dramatically reduce the chance of someone stealing your spoiler..

- Andrew

A client of mine had his BMW stolen whilst in a sales meeting with me. The car was later found in a wood minus the wheels, otherwise undamaged. I doubt if locking nuts would have helped in that instance.

And I had three loose nuts on one wheel of a previous car, which was perhaps / probably caused by an aborted theft attempt?

I think certain motors have an aftermarket wheel following, so are higher risk. You've only to look at the prices people pay Halfords for Oz rims to fit a Nova to see that they would be good currency in a backstreet dodgy motor dealer.

Of course, if manufactureres just etched a 2D code onto them instead they would be traceable to the original owner.