Mercedes Vs. Lexus

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:12:49 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

every write up from Edmund's to Consumers Reports lists the European cars from the MB to the Porsche as the bottom of the list in reliability. It's actually pretty sad that a $60+K car is less reliable than a $20K Ford.

Pick up this months Consumers Report, this entire months issue is dedicated to the past 5 years reliability ratings. MB ranked *dead last* in reliability and frequency of repairs. These aren't test that CR did, but actual surveys from car owners from model years 2000 to

2005.

It's the same thing that Edmund's said, Motor Week same thing. In fact, MB even admitted that their cars have had a horrible repair record and their focus is to build better cars. Their dealers are even complaining about how unhappy their customers are.

I really *like* the looks of the MB line. Especially the SLK's but quite honestly, I'm not willing to give up the reliability of my LS430 to look cool while my SLK is being towed to the shop yet again.

Not according to Consumer Reports. Take a look at this month's annual auto issue, page 90. MB cars are rated "much worse than average" in reliability, particularly electrical and power equipment.

When you consider that Consumer Reports rates cars on an level playing field (i.e, independent of price), MB's relability ratings are obscene considering what the cars cost. And their dealers' service departments are even more overpriced than their sales departments.

I prefer the way the Lexus drives. When I was a teenager, I preferred the MB, BMW, "road feel" drive. :-)

I get Consumer Reports, read it monthly and depend on it for important purchases. Having said that, see little problems with the Mercedes that friends have or the SLK320 that until recently I had. Do admit that Lexus is the best relative to those we mentioned.

Re the way the Lexus drives....I preferred the road feel as a teenager and to some extent still do. I appreciate a quiet cabin but do want to hear the engine as it shifts gears (though not too loud). The Miatas, del sols (the ones that still survive), Toyota spyders, convert Beetles, etc.....those are a tad punishing long term. The TT, Boxster, SLK.....fun fun fun (as mentioned earlier). If some day Lexus gives something particularly exciting to drive (a convert)....I'm there. The sc430? Sheeeesh.....even too refined for my 80 yr old mom (who drives a high end jag).

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:24:03 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

is there even such a thing as a high end Jag? No thanks, been there, done that. Never own a Jag again thankyouverymuch

Statistically, you and your friends are just plain lucky...so far.

Not me. I'd rather hear the high-end stereo.

I'll agree with you in this sense. If I were going to buy a two-seater, the Lexus is not the one I would choose.

Hey....makes my mom happy (80 years old) and the thing is exceptionally reliable (not like in the old days)...so mom....ROCK ON!

Overall, I have to agree with you (and am quite happy for my luck!). I do think CR "paints" things worse then they often are though...

You know....I must say I was disappointed with the ML stereo....but personally, I like more punch to my stereo (I'm a a serious rocker). I like to have the car vibrating with music. Note though that I did replace the system in my SLK320 cause I'm an audiophile. The good news is that the TT Bose system rocks....great system (have had it before). Now if only I don't blow out a speaker LOL.

Myself? I want the best of both worlds....an engine that growls and a stereo that rocks my world. The ML system is not for rock-n-rollers (though a great system).

I'm very pleased with the ML audio. In fact, I bought the navigation system just to get the ML audio. I only later realized what a cool toy the nav is. :-)

I did that to my Pontiac Firebird when I was in my 20s. Ordered the car from the factory without a stereo. Had a high end shop put in an awesome sound system. I loved the sound, but found myself at the audio shop about once a quarter because the speakers would occasionally cut out. After that, I vowed not to do that again.

I haven't heard the system you have, but I can say that (1) Bose is not considered "high end" in the high end stores I frequent, (2) ML is definitely considered high end in those stores, and (3) a system that has "punch" is often distortion rather than high fidelity. The Bose products are generally thought of as "colored," rather than "pure" sound.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:32:43 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

..which is also surprising to me since the Jags are in the basement in all the reviews I've read as well.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:36:49 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

I'm not sure how much "painting" they had to do. The results were derived directly from the owners, not their own test drivers.

Additionally, the reviews are nearly identical to what other auto reviews on the same cars from different sites/mags have written.

Hey....maybe my family has been extremely lucky with our cars. My bet is that it definitely helps that we drive low milage cars and only keep them a few years.....the trials and tribulations of all of us getting a new car every year in the 70s (my dad would buy cars wholesale that just came off lease from his friend who owned a dealership, we'd keep them for a year and then my dad would sell them at a profit....obviously my dad wanted to be a car salesman but instead was stuck with a multimillion dollar advertising company)

I always love to see Buick listed up there with Lexus in JD Powers ratings and the like.

The simple fact is, the average Buick driver barely drives his car and certainly uses about none of the features--which makes Buicks look good from the standpoint of warranty repairs and the like.

So yeah, if you don't drive much and you trade the car frequently, statistically speaking you're not likely to see the issues that others see when they drive their cars 12K to 15K/year and keep the car past 50K miles.

It's a damn shame that there are still cars out there like that, cars that are designed with the low mile/frequent trading driver in mind. It's like American cars in the 50s and 60s all over again.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:28:43 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

You make a good point. Just about any car will be fine as long as it's relatively new and, (most importantly), under warranty. I really liked our Jag but the electrical problems were never ending.

It basically boils down to this, (for me anyway). I've reached a point in my life where power is important, but not at the expense of reliability. I want a car that's powerful enough to get me out of a jam but not loud and noisy. I don't want a car that advertises what's under the hood. Most people unfamiliar with an LS, would never know that if pressed, can do damn well for a car that weighs as much as it does. Also, I want a car that is reliable. If I spend a small fortune on a car, I not only expect it to be reliable, I *demand* it. Most people would never tolerate a home appliance failing several times a year yet for some reason seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to have spent fifty times that amount on a car that can't seem to get them to the end of the street without breaking down.

If I want noise and performance, I hop on my motorcycle. Otherwise, I actually enjoy the quiet solitude of my LS. The days of roaring engines and high speed turns are, fortunately or unfortunately, behind me.

A couple of things..

My mom had a jag in the late 80s, maybe early 90s. She had leased it.....it was the most unreliable POS imaginable. An incredible amount of electrical problems. Half the time it would not even start (often stranding her somewhere). She returned it to the leasing agency within 2 months. In contrast, the relatively newjag she has now is quite nice....good ride and has held up nicely.

Nothing worse than an unreliable car. Nothing worse than going to start a car and it won't....or being stranded at the side of the road. Once bitten twice shy. Too bad that overall for the auto biz, there is not better quality.

The Lexus brand is about 22 years old now. The Mercedes one is over a

100 years old. Thats the biggest thing going for Merc. Likewise for BMW, Porsche and the other European brands. But quality will out. Lexus, Infinito and Acura will do to the European brands what the Toyota and Honda did to the big three. Might be a matter of 10 years or more... but it will happen.

That said, what is still great about the European marquees are:

1. Great Styling
2. Performance and fun factor
3. Snob value (!!??)

Lexus styling is still seems dominated by the Toyota Design Bible - make it timeless. Will Lexus do a spinoff like Scion - create out and out style icons with loads of performance. Now that's a thought!

I agree. I had a VW Rabbit that did the same things. It's been over

25 years, but I swore I'd never buy another VW, and probably another German car, ever again.....and I haven't.

The Japanese have elevated reliability to an art form. Amazingly, Hyundai is nearly that good these days. Heck, if a company that just a few years ago was building cars in buildings that had dirt floors can now build a car that reliable, there's no reason on earth why Europe and the Big 3 can't to it too.....other than that they can't be bothered.

Similarly, now that they know how to make reliable cars, I don't see why Lexus can't build a car that's attractive and sporty......other than that they don't want too because too many people are buying are buying their blandmobiles now.

16, coming up on 17.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:10:20 -0500, "b22r" graced this newsgroup with:

ironically, their quality went WAY up when Ford took them over. They completely re engineered their assembly process and introduced something the Brits were totally unfamiliar with...quality control.

It's an incredible statement of just how bad your build quality is when FORD can come along and double, maybe triple, your reliability ratings.

Thats so great, to have a dad like that! Yes, than why not drive the mercedes? Drive it 2-4 years and sell it when its ready for some intensive upkeep expenses.You DA MAN!! BY the way, what car will i get when the time comes for a sedan?? A Mercury Grand Marquis!! Thats because my dad was simple civil servant ,although he died quite comfortably upper midde class. What did he taech me? Crown Vics are the best choice all around for Price versus value, comfort, and reliability.Thjere, Ive said it. This is MY thread and im sticking to it!