But rest assured ... the Corolla ... having a throttle CABLE
connecting the gas pedal to the throttle butterfly directly WON'T
lag, hesitate, or argue with you about your decision to move the
If Lexus is not going to take that out, the very least they can
provide is a RESET button.
It can be hidden under the Lexus logo in the middle of the steering
wheel. Nobody will know its there.
We can even push the RESET button while nobody is watching, so
the car acts like a normal car to everyone :)
You know, like this:
"This is my Lexus. See the Lexus logo here? (push the RESET button now).
It is a great car!"
Even an aftermarket add-on RESET button will be fine.
Net Nanny Mark. The more complaints about a particular issue that
are made public, the better. As I said earlier, Toyota/Lexus does
monitor these newsgroups.
Now if it troubles you that your beloved Lexus is less than perfect
.... smell the coffee.
Isn't that bad for the engine and some other components?
A Lexus Service Consultant once told me to step on the brakes
harder if I didn't want to hear the brake squeal.
(Where do they find these Lexus Service Consultants from?)
It looks like the Lexus is making us adapt to its ways !
Something tells me the "throttle-by-wire" guys at Toyota will
be looking for other models to mess with.
The Corolla may have been temporarily spared.
Hang on to a good car.
They won't make 'em like they used to.
The spying eyes of Toyota/Lexus watch this forum and many others. I
started my "anti black box" campaign a couple of years ago. The only
reason for all this ECU / actuator shit is that smart gadgets seem(?)
to sell cars. It's not cheaper, it's more complicated, and is prone
to more failures ... all of which equal more sales in both repair
parts and entire vehicles when all this unnecessary shit starts
failing. Go price the sliding door actuator for any of these mini
vans if you want an example. While you're at it, look into a
transmission overhaul of ANY front wheel drive automatic, especially
the new generation 5 speed units. OH ... and how about those "smart"
ignition keys at $150 a copy?
Wake up dude, it's the 21st century where chips rule everything.
If you crave simplicity, maybe you should look for a nice '57 Chevy 210 with a
stovebolt 6 and 2 speed powerglide.
PS... this is not to deny that Lexus did some very sloppy designwork on a
system that could have been as responsive as the Eurofighter. (yes Phil, it too
is jammed full of chips and glass controls... and will outfly anything because
of its chip control systems) It's a Lexus fault, NOT the black box concept.
Tankie.... DUDE (condescendingly). Chips do not rule everything.
My bitch is the ever pervasive expansion of ECU controlled functions
that are not germane to the basic functions of the engine or
transmission. I have at my fingertips 2003 and 2004 Toyota books
outlining the operation and theory of all ECU controlled body devices
(they also cover power train devices and systems). JUST reading over
the body devices and systems controlled by ECU's is .... MAKE WORK
... to keep engineers employed. There's no real need for 90% of it
all. Sorry to bust your youthful, techno embracing, bubble but I've
got the details in front of me.
I disagree with your final assertion ... that all this crap is a
Lexus fault. All other manufacturers who are racing down this
foolish path of delegating simple functions to ECUs are having the
same problems. If you doubt me, get to know an experienced BMW
mechanic ... ask him about I-Drive on the E65. These cars are
arguably the most ECU controlled piles of electronic controlled crap
on the road. Luxurious automobile until one of the ECUs get a
migraine. Lexus is headed that way. Too bad.
BMW and MB too?
You are right that this is OVER engineering to do something simple, but there
is no doubt that it could be done correctly... IE when the throttle is matted,
all other system parameters defer to those needed to generate max power right
Again, you are correct... a mechanical setup does do this just fine, but so can
a black box if it is programmed correctly... that's where I blame Lexus for
dumping under-developed crap onto us, and charging us top dollar for it.
This throttle responce issue has changed my fantacy from an ES330 to one for a
Chrysler 300. It's got a HEMI and 100 hp more for the same price. I know it is
a hunk of junk, but there will be no throttle lag here! Ant talk about the "fun
If only it were so simple.
The issue doesn't generally manifiest itself when the driver mashes the
throttle from a standing start. Engine response is generally quite good in
these circumstances, because the computer does exactly what you are
suggesting - it says to heck with emissions, fuel economy, etc. and just
goes for broke.
The problem tends to manifest itself when the user "rolls on" the throttle
when they're moving at a slow to moderate speed. At this point, the
computer has at least six things it needs to coordinate to make more power:
1) throttle plate position; 2) transmssion ratios and/or torque convertor
lockup; 3) VVTi valve timing; 4) ignition timing; 5) air-fuel mixture; and
6) intake runners since the intake system can vary runner length. Several
of these are mechanical systems with mechanical lag, others can be adjusted
instantenously. The ECU software designer has to figure out the right way
to orchestrate these six things to make the engine smootly roll on just the
right amout of power while keeping within emissions constraints on the EPA
test cycle and returning optimal fuel economy, and to do it under widely
varying loads, temps, and ambient elevations for the life of the car.
This is an extremely difficult area of work for ECU software designers. I'm
not saying Lexus couldn't have done better, but they are not stupid, they
are not underfunded, and they are not trying to make life miserable for
drivers. It is a tough engineering problem. It is not unique to Lexus or
Toyota - virtually every forum for every automobile has complaints to
And I doubt you've driven the new Hemi 300. It may very well have similar
However, they have succeeded in doing just that ... making the Lexus
driving experience less enjoyable. All this complication to meet
emissions has unintended consequences. Higher costs, infintesimal
emissions and fuel mileage improvements, lower owner satisfaction.
Must of this electronic crap is MAKE WORK for engineers. There....
said it a second time.
Personally, I am not going to intentionally be an unpaid field tester
for these "work in progress" software and hardware CRAP projects,
regardless of manufacturer. That's why I say, the lower end cars
Toyota makes are "better" cars. The good ideas that got the bugs
worked out trickle down to the lower end cars. The fluffy crap
Well, let's exhaust the little knowledge I have about the new 300
Hemi. About 6 weeks ago, I was at Mt. Palomar in northern San Diego
county. A 300 Hemi pulled up to the restaurant .... had two drivers
and NJ manfacturer plates on it. I took two pictures (front and
looking in thru the driver's window) and talked to the test driver.
"It moves out good and doesn't handle half bad for a big heavy
sedan." I didn't ask for a tour under the hood. The fit and
finish both inside and out was quite good, at first blush. Take a
look at the hemi engine internals. Two valve engine, push rods, 2
spark plugs per cylinder. All low rpm torque.
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