This is a BMWnewsgroup or are you watching elsewhere?
Trolling is not my nature but posting to several NG is a usual sign.
If you are not trolling or spamming acept my apologies but I agree with you that some Jap cars last a long time especially where it doesn't rain or near the coast. Africa buys 90% of European scrapped Nissans and Toyotas for spares to keep the old ones running. The body lasts because there is no need for road salt to melt the ice and very little rain and what does fall is distilled (pity it not whisky)
Hugh
Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
You notice I used another description before the Bangalized reference - I find some of their previous designs questionable as well. The Z3 to me is a great looking car from the rear 3/4, but looks like someone was trying way too hard from almost any other angle - it lacks the simple elegance that something like the Miata in both of it's generations or the Honda S2000 has. The 8 series had a front that tried to mimic the M1 with a rear of a Ford Granada (or is it a mid-80's Mazda 626?) and the heft of an aircraft carrier. Elegant, it is not.
Me too. I spent some time in the UK for a while (a long time ago) - so I heard many stories about their mechanical shortcomings, so despite the fact that some of them are works of art - I would not want to own them. I understand that you have better luck with the new one (It's amazing that for a Jag the Ford connection means quality, huh?)
The main reason that people choose to fork these extras is image. Most of the drivers can not tell the subtle difference between the really close competitors. As for the "Ultimate DRIVING Machine" - great ad copy. Of course, some people find it hard to accept from machines that keep on mashrooming in weight and luxury options and keep on coming with bigger and stronger engines to mask the deficiency of all this weight.
As I said --- "want something DIFFERENT" Actually I haven't seen the latest CRAP from the GM stable but when they tried to sell RHD Caddy's in the UK they pulled out after 18 months - even took the Pontiac Firebird and Chevy Camero with them (Boo Hoo) even though both are now dead in the water...
America has been downsizing for years - something about CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) and GM are buying into IZUZU and Nissan, Ford are buying into (or bought 50% of) Mazda (US Escort was Euro Mazda 323)
The US was ready for a NEW Caddy! Along came Toyota with the LEXUS and built it in the US..... Why should BMW worry? No pedigree!
The US is supposed to be "classless" and to a point it is but! and that's a BIG but... There are class divides and the BMW, MERCS and general Euro "Sports/elite" cars will always rise above the cluless Caddy owner.
However, I see that all the scrap Stretch Limos are being shipped to the UK for all the wannabe stars to use.
Most of the 15 year olds at my school came to the "leaving prom" in hired OLD Caddy limos with the rust bubbling through the fenders and chrome peeling from the gutters and - yes you guessed it - the cars are sagging in the middle due to too muche weight over the years. One company has gutted one and fitted an old truck diesel engine (smells like an old truck stop) and rattles as much -- Limos?
Have you seen the Caddy sports car ????? Ugh!
Hugh
Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
MAny can't wait for the ROVER/MG (Ford) V8 engined 4WD sports sedan but it too will never be a BMW nor a FORD Special - even BMW buy diesel engines from Toyota and Peugeot as do FORD, VOLVO etc.
Hugh
Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
That is very true. I have found a lot of red neck people who still think that American cars are classy and high quality cars whereas, Toyota, Honda etc. are still cheaply made and very low quality cars with lots of rust problem and that their "Tiny" engines die down in a few years ( it could be white supremicist people as well). This kind of ignorance really sets me off. These people are still living in the
70s and 80s. I have rendered people speechless in this kind of debate since this is grossly untrue and the truth on the contrary is completely opposite.
I can't believe all you ppl lauding German style and quality in a Honda newsgroup. With the exception of the 7-series Beemers and the Mercedes roadsters (SL, Z), all their cars have been butt-ugly for 50 years! But, that's all subjective. Quality is quite another thing.
Euro car quality is a myth. My friend has two Mercs the same year as my Civic ('87), and both of them have been in the shop more than mine, their paint peeled before mine, and the seats in the mercs (sedans) are some of the most tortuous racks I've ever endured. The dash top on a friend's newer Beemer split open like a cheap sofa (uv damage) while mine only has a minor crack. I pooh-poohed Jap cars for years, buying only American, yet believing the European quality myth. Then, I finally bought a Honda and watched in awe as all my yuppie friends cursed their high dollar Euro-cages as they fell apart at about the same rate as American cars. I'm glad I never bought a German car. I'da been really pissed.
Here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, Hondas have the highest resale value, after five years, of any car sold, including BMW's and Mercedes. The reason is simple. They're better cars.
I have no rattles in my made in Japan CR-V. while I had some in my Civic and the 2003 Accord owners seem to be reporting them over and over on this NG. Ford Focus in Europe is made in Germany, as well as the Mondeo and they get great reviews, here... My parents in law have/had 3 old made in Germany Jettas, all of them well over 300000km and still going. The new Jettas are made in Mexico or Brazil... But hey, what do you expect. Look the clothes you're wearing. I bet most of them are made in China.
In fact they hire American stylists -- most Japanese cars are designed in southern CA. And most frequently, designers seem to come from Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. This is particularly true of Toyota (ie Lexus).
I agree with that. Honda is inarguably the most advanced car company in the world when it comes to technology, and quality. However, their cars still don't have the dynamic quality of the European makes -- which still just feel better to drive. The IS300 does, though. (I haven't driven an NSX. I'm sure it does too.)
That said, I'd still opt for a BMW, though the preference is slim, and could easily be swayed by the quality of the dealer. Also, given a choice between a brand new Integra or Mazda 6, and a few-year-old 3 Series, I'd definately take the latter.
I would sooner trust a vehicle made in Japan than in the US. The workers there have a better work ethic than in the US, where everybody thinks somebody else owes them something, and the CEOs are grabbing up all the cash and perks they can steal. The business model here is flawed. The Japanese are taking a real risk allowing Americans to build their cars. I'll say this, though, I'll bet the Japanese are not buying American-made Toyotas or Hondas...
To be fair, a tarted up BMW with extra low profile tires, etc., looks pretty juvenile too. And I see a lot of older BMWs (affordable to juveniles of all ages) being driven in juvenile fashion.
Your are talking about the Lexus RX 300 (now it is called RX 330). It is built in Cambridge Ontario. The first plant outside Japan to produce Lexus. The Fremont recently started bulding Camry Solara, which was previously only built in Ontario and now they will be upgrading the facility in Fremont to produce the RX 330 and the new Corollas with moonroofs (this will cost $6 million US alone) since all of the Corollas Sport and LEs in North America that have moonroofs are made in Cambridge as well.
Hey, don't say *just* a Mondeo/Contour -- they're great driving cars. Excellent dynamic capabilities, but zero cachet... to think they sold for less than a Jetta! They're really cheap now, and have really low insurance rates -- nobody wants them! A great stealth freeway fighter and inner city neighborhood survivor for LA... The LX Sport with the firm suspension is almost as good as the SVT, but looks like a rental car...
Yes, 20 year, BMW has been making the "sport sedan" type cars for awhile now, where as toyota has been focused on the affordable family car.
That I6 in the IS is a very capiable engine, albeit the fundimental design of it is about 10 years old. Ask the people who MOD these engines, that I6 can handle 700+HP...try doing that w/ the M3 engine, that thing can hardly handle what it has now, have you read about the engine blowing in the brand new M3s?
From everything I read the S2K is head and shoulders better than the Z3 and holds it's own against the Boxster and Z4. I suspect that when Honda really wants to do something - you better watch out. The moment a RWD small sedan from Acura appears will be a very interesting moment in this segment.
As for dynamic quality - Mazda seem to be very good as well in their RWD cars - chassis wise - I would take a Miata any day over a Z3 and the new RX-8 gets nothing but rave reviews about it's dynamic qualities. The late
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