2nd hand diesels - what to look for?

Go on, then. Give us your definition of "bad".

They're just horrible things in general. I've driven lots of diesel powered stuff and pretty much all of the diesel powered versions of normal cars are bloody awful compared with the petrol equivalent.

I can think of probably three cars where the diesel is better than the petrol, and that's because the petrol is particularly unimpressive.

Citroen Xantia TDs are ok, but that's more the suspension than the engine being any good. Jag X-type 2.1D's are ok, well, better than the 2.0 V6 petrol anyway. Mercedes diesels are better than 4 cyl Mercedes petrols.

Other than the examples above I can't think of a reason to own a diesel other than being so bloody tight that you're willing to put up with the disadvantages of a diesel.

If you want to drive something but you don't want big fuel bills, buy something with LPG.

I detest the noise, vibration, lack of response, smelly fuel, and general 'orribleness of diesels. I can understand why people have them in stuff like Land Rover Defenders, buses and lorries, but they're just so wrong for a car.

Oh, and before you come out with the old chestnut about "You must have only driven the old diesels", that's bollocks. I've driven most of the new diesels as well, stuff like the E280 V6 CDi, the 530d, the 535d, the 730d and others. The E280 cdi was the only one that came close to being tolerable.

Diesels are just nasty things and should be shunned by right thinking people.

That 280/320 engine is a cracker. Audi's V8 diesel is meant to be really good. Why didn't you like the 535d?

I'm pleased to see that clarification as to type of use (that you were referring to cars). Originally you said "Almost all diesel engines are bad", which is patently not true.

How is the diesel Xantia's suspension better than the petrol version, then?

I suspect it's part-disliking diesel anyway and partially because the equivalent or near-equivalent petrols are so good... :)

Nicer engine to cart around? :-)

That's not what Pete meant, more that the petrol engines are banal whiny pieces rather than the TDs were especially good.

I disagree but then that's my luxury...

"Pete M" wrote in message news:44303e11$ snipped-for-privacy@usenet.zapto.org...

All moderately valid points* but for many people they don't know, want to understand, or think they need to understand, the differences.

On the motorway at motorway speeds the noise is more associated with the cylinders than the fuel type. The differentiation for most people is "quiet" and "quieter." Or maybe "good" and "good enough?"

Yes, we always did say you were a strange one :-)

But what is the petrol equivalent? Do you match torque or power? Do you match fuel economy? Do you match cc? Do you match purchase price?

I did my equivalency on power and performance. The diesel was SO much quicker than the petrol and had a bonus of 10mpg.

Ugh!

A bit smoky..suspect reliability..Mondeo in drag..but with Jaguar servicing costs - nice! I did look into getting a new one but ran away after checking the web for owner's comments!!

Ok.

There are no disadvantages IMO.

..no thanks, I want a boot that can carry stuff rather than be filled with fuel. I also want to be able to find LPG easily. My local stations don't have it.

Vibration? I've got less vibration now, when driving, than my last Vauxhall petrol engine had. As for a "lack of response" - how do you work that out? With the torque and power of modern diesels any driver that has half a clue shouldn't find any lack of response. One of the reasons I got my diesel was due to it's lively performance!

How awful.

More rubbish.

So the multiple award winning BMW 3 litre diesel isn't even

Meanwhile, back on the planet earth..

Clatter clatter clatter clatter vroom whistle cough splutter change gear vroom whistle splutter change gear vroom whistle splutter change gear rumble rumble

Have you thought about leaving the Mother-in-Law back at home?

It's not, but it's the fact that the suspension is infinately better equipped to handle the weight of a diesel lump than most cars suspension is.

some diesels are quicker than the petrol equivalent, that's true enough. The X-type D is quicker than the X-type 2.0 V6, it's also noisier, more vibratory, and has a much narrower torque band. That said, I'd still have a diesel x-type over the 2.0 V6. I'd have the 2.5 or 3.0 X-type before the diesel though.

When I touch the accelerator / throttle pedal, I want something to happen instantly. Not to have to wait for a turbo to spool up, then have to change gear 2000 rpm later due to the narrow rev range and start again.

Well, it is awful stuff. Lots of it ends up on petrol station forecourts as well, which means slippery shoes if you don't avoid it.

Why is it rubbish, because you drive a diesel? I'd have a diesel Land Rover, but I wouldn't taint an otherwise decent car with a DERV lump.

It's won awards for being one of the best diesels - that doesn't mean it's a nice thing to drive behind.

I'm on the planet earth, difference is that my viewpoint isn't ruled entirely by the urge to save money on motoring.

To me the fact that a diesel engine is more economical isn't really an issue. 40 mpg in an unenjoyable to drive car is no advantage to me over 30 mpg in an enjoyable one. I can afford to pay the difference and to me it's a worthwhile extra.

Eh - do you know how to drive a diesel properly? My 5 year old diesel has 224lb/ft at 1800rpm and the power band lasts solidly up to 4500rpm but it will reach 5000rpm if you put up with the power drop-off. Anywhere in that range, it responds immediately to throttle input to such an extent that I bought it over a petrol equivalent that would need a couple of down changes before it would even think of giving the levels of performance I now enjoy.

I've always thought the "2000rpm power band" argument was largely spurious because just how wide are your petrol gear change ratios? My last petrol ratios were spaced about 2000rpm so if you were gunning it, up at 7000rpm down to 5..up to 7 and down to 5 (how boring having to change up every 2000rpm!!). All that's required for effective progress is that the power band is wide enough to take the gear changes.

If anything, I change gear less often now than I did in my petrol days due to the flat torque curve you get with diesels compared to the peaky petrol ones.

Well not the ones I've seen. I originally thought this would be bad but in 5 years of diesel ownership I only once got it on my hands and never on my feet. Having said that, I can't say I'd buy "Eau de Petrol" to splash on before a night out!!

In fact, in the midst of all your ranting, you missed the most serious disadvantage of diesel over petrol which is the difference seen when they are spilled on the open road. This also leads to the most serious disadvantage of petrol compared to diesel which is its desire to evaporate allied to its combustibility.

You rabbit on about refinement then say you'd have a Land Rover diesel..good grief! I drive new ones at work by the way..I'd have a BMW 3.0D LONG before a Land Rover diesel. Ho Ho!

There's more opinions that say otherwise..and just because you say it isn't nice doesn't mean you're not talking rubbish.

For many, including me, petrol cars would be cheaper. If you're argument held much validity, why has there been such huge increases in the 'performance' diesel sector in recent years? This is a sector that should be devoid of economy hunters.

Well I enjoy mine and prefer the engine response to the petrol equivalents - the economy is just a bonus.

making gearchange decisions in a diesel is easy.

If te answer to both questions is yes, you are in the right gear :-)

The message from snipped-for-privacy@spam.vlaad.co.uk (Paul Cummins) contains these words:

Is in mine. To go forwards select D. To go backwards select R. To avoid having toasty brakes after long hills, pick a number.