Engine driven generators (240V)

When looking at adverts for S/H vans used by various utility companies, I've seen references to some being fitted with engine driven generators.
These are driven, as far as I can tell, from the main engine and aren't something like a Honda Generator simply fitted to the vehicle.
Having looked in the engine bay of my Ducato and some other similar vehicles, I'm rather mystified how they found space for the extra unit. I suppose, if there wasn't, say, an engine driven engine driven A/C compressor that space could be used.
While I'm not seriously thinking about fitting one to our Ducato*, I remaim curious how they do fit these generators.
*We usually stay on sites with mains and we have a Propane powered Honda for the odd time we need it.
So, has anyone seen a vehicle with such a generator and can say how it iwas mounted, please?
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On 01/07/2018 10:00, Brian Reay wrote:

I saw one where the gubbins involved a hydraulic pump.
But possibly idiot boy question: is use of the van's alternator clearly a non-starter? IIRC beefed up alternators for vans used to be rated to about 3000 VA even when running hot.
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On 01/07/2018 11:27, Robin wrote:

I have too, where the alternator can be remoted, possibly much closer to the batteries. This was for some hairy equipment in the back of a Land Cruiser.

There are some Chinese clones of/and Bosch alternators which will provide this sort of output. A big problem is the wiring!
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On 01/07/18 11:27, Robin wrote:

There are systems to utilise the alternator to charge extra batteries etc- they are fitted to ambulances etc. They have safety systems to monitor the alternator (and batteries). One manufacturer is Adverc- a friend used to be the local agent and fitted/maintained them for the local health authority. As I recall, some alternators are capable of far more output than normally delivered in normal use, at least for short periods. The system relied on this. If the particular vehicle didn't have a suitable alternator, an uprated one was fitted.
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<snip> >There are systems to utilise the alternator to charge extra batteries

Some vehicles come with dual batteries as standard, as did my mates SL63 AMG.
A relatively small battery (for a 6.3l lump) in the engine bay to start and run the engine and a much bigger one in the boot to run everything else.
As I was driving it about to sell it for him it first came up with an 'alternator fault' on the dash and then before I could find somewhere safe to stop, it cut out. ;-(
I managed to then slowly coast it a few yards to a farm drive and waited for the AA.
He determined the big battery was dead and that was pulling everything else down, so replaced it. That allowed me to drive it to the Merck dealer and they also fitted a new alternator that was something like £700+ on it's own. ;-(
I understood it was a dual output alternator with two different regulation paths (and so it should have been for that money), as opposed to a split charge system.
Cheers, T i m
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An alternator basically delivers the amps needed when in use. If that exceeds its maximum, it will limit at that maximum. Makers don't normally fit one capable of delivering more than the maximum load (plus a bit for charging and safety) once running at its best speed. Of course it's not usually that difficult to fit a larger one. About 100A (12v) is the limit for a V belt, and about double that for serpentine.
However, if using the main engine to drive a generator when stationary, you'd need to provide speed control. Which might be tricky with modern engine electronics. There might also be cooling system problems.
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An alternator basically delivers the amps needed when in use. If that exceeds its maximum, it will limit at that maximum. Makers don't normally fit one capable of delivering more than the maximum load (plus a bit for charging and safety) once running at its best speed. Of course it's not usually that difficult to fit a larger one. About 100A (12v) is the limit for a V belt, and about double that for serpentine.
However, if using the main engine to drive a generator when stationary, you'd need to provide speed control. Which might be tricky with modern engine electronics. There might also be cooling system problems.
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But you wouldn't want a normal idle. The whole point. An alternator does not develop its maximum output at idle.
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Well okay, but surely hardly beyond the wit of man to program in a “fast idle” (or whatever rpm required) mode? The hardware is all already there, just needs a software tweak.
Tim
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In article

Good luck doing that. ;-)
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On 7/3/2018 12:32 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If its drive by wire it needs a resistor and switch on the throttle pot signal. The electronics have to allow the engine to be revved in neutral as that's the high emissions test.
80A alt 22A@1300rpm 60A@2500rpm That's alt speed the engine speed will be lower as the alt pulley is smaller than engine pulley.
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Just use a stick between pedal and seat. ;-)

Odd thing is having been around portable generators for longer than most - location TV etc - I've never ever seen one where the vehicle engine is used to run the generator. Closest might be those old ice cream vans where the fridge compressor was engine driven.
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On 03/07/2018 15:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I've seen some advertised when looking a s/h vehicles used for things like specialist radio work.
I'm pretty sure a friend who lived on a boat had a generator coupled to the main engine, as well as another generator. The former was used when underway.
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Oh, indeed. Running a generator from the main engine when that is doing its main work is I'd say normal. It's running it do provide power when parked up that isn't. My guess being the efficiency would be dreadful.
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On 7/3/2018 3:36 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Small generator <3Kw engines tend to be 50-150cc, either 2 stroke or sidevalve 4 stroke.
Most larger generator engines will be a small 2 or 3 cylinder diesel.
Then there are real generators with MW power output used for things like hospital power backup. They use big slow running turbo Diesels.
10 KVA = 13.4 bhp. 1954 VW Beetle was bored 2mm to become the 1200 and power increased from 30bhp to 36bhp. Running a car or van engine at little more than idle is very uneconomic.
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news:phgen1$g39>

my Series I land rover had a very large dynamo connected to the PTO when I got it but I could never get it working so later replaced it with a compressor
-
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The BBC used to have some Land Rovers with vehicle engine driven mains generators. They had to be run with the bonnet open for cooling.
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Bill wrote:

Almost certainly the Land Rover had a hand throttle option, and some form of extra drive coupling for a generator, compressor, or winch. They were designed for off-road or remote rural use, so extra facilities would have been thought of.
In 1970 I owned an Austin Champ for a few months. 24v electrics, and an enormous connector which I was told was for powering up a tank. Also spare wires in the wiring harness run to strategic points around the vehicle, available for powering extra devices.
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Ah - never come across one of those. Perhaps for radio (I only worked in TV) where the power requirements are lower.
Bonnets open for cooling reminds me of those ice cream vans.
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writes

what year was that as I have a series 1 land rover that originally had a very large generator driven off the pto shaft It had 4 large output wires and I think the control box had 8 connections never got it working but the Land Rover is still usable
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