Number plate requirements.

Hi all,
Can anyone give me the real world low down on number plates from a MOT / Plod pov please?
e.g. We are supposed to get them from an 'Registered Number Plate
Supplier' and show them particular documents etc and that the plates themselves must conform to all the relevant spec (size, colour, font, spacing) and display the suppliers name / logo / postcode and the BS mark etc.
<https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf
However, there are many suppliers out on the net who will supply plates that seem to be marked correctly but where you don't have to supply all the docs so whilst I'm guessing they wouldn't be 'approved', how could that (when they are used legitimately etc) ever be an issue?
I can see the spirit of the intention re restricting the manufacture of number plates via only 'registered suppliers' but are they shutting down non-registered suppliers (and if not, what is the point of all the rules etc)?
Just interested minds etc. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

Oddly, I had both number plates stolen a few years ago, and it was only when I began looking for replacements that I found out about all the various requirements. Luckily, it was very easy to get a pair off ebay, and the thing was back on the road in a couple of days.
I called the police to let them know they'd been stolen, and they just seemed puzzled. It was as if they thought I wanted them to find out who had taken them, and get them back for me. I just thought it was a good idea, in case they were used in some robbery or other.
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wrote: <snip> >Oddly, I had both number plates stolen a few years ago, and it was only

For me it was getting one made up for a trailer at my local car spares type place.
I took in some pretty (shall we say) 'important' documents including a photo but nope, they wanted a gas bill. ;-(

Quite.

See, people 'doing the right thing' isn't understood anymore, like when I phone one of those 'How is my driving' numbers off the back of a lorry and they kept asking me what the bad driving was when I was complementing the driver on his *good* driving!

After changing the clutch cable on my Sierra estate at the side of the road when it snapped mid journey, I left / lost my Leatherman 'multitool' and I too contacted the Police, just to let them know it had been 'lost' (mostly to cover it being found sticking out of someone with my fingerprints all over it). Like you it seemed to confuse them as to why I should be telling them.
Cheers, T i m
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On 09-Nov-16 2:55 PM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Must have been an utterly dozy clueless cop then. Number plate theft is a big issue.
Average is more than one set a day stolen in Staffordshire alone. http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2016/01/27/1600-number-plates-stolen-from-vehicles-across-staffordshire/ https://www.staffordshire.police.uk/article/3168/Theft-of-Registration-Plate
I believe it's even more rife in other places. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/what-to-do-if-your-number-plates-are-stolen--and-how-to-stop-it/
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Peter Hill wrote:

That's what I'd have thought. And I can't think of any reasons for stealing them that don't involve pretending to be me. I did get a sort of form letter from them after a few months, to tell me that they wouldn't be taking it any further. But I didn't really want them to do anything - I just wanted the fact that they'd been stolen recorded somewhere.

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wrote:

I think they can record (put markers on?) plates that are known to be cloned and therefore know to be ready to give the real wearers a break.
Now I know having the 'extra' information on some plates *may* help Plod pin down their authenticity but only if said maker / retailer is on a 'Registered Number Plate Supplier' list they have access to online.
So, I'm guessing an otherwise valid plate (size, colour, characters etc) that didn't bear such information *could* be more likely to be bogus but as there is little actual proof either way, I wouldn't have though it would have been an issue ITRW (but I thought I'd ask).
In the same way that say riding a motorcycle on L plates whilst carrying a passenger could 'waste police time', if they stop you and find out the rider isn't a learner (doh, and we were only 50 yards into a 100 yard journey!) but I'm not sure what they would do you for (or bother to try to do you for?) if they plates were correctly displaying the vehicle registration but just not the other bits?
It's like all the Hi-Viz jackets you se being worn by Hose Riders and Motorcyclists that have 'Polite' in large letters across them ... could that be deemed that you were 'impersonating a Police Officer'?
<Googles> Looks like it can be an issue ...
http://motorbikewriter.com/petition-ban-polite-hi-vis-vest/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319998/Whoa-Horse-riders-wearing-hi-viz-arrested-impersonating-police.html
Cheers, T i m
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:20:39 +0000, Peter Hill

A neighbour had a knock on the door by Plod who asked if his CCTV camera could 'see across the street' and if it could, would he mind lowering it because the person living opposite didn't like that. He invited Plod in, showed him the monitor, lowered the camera, all was fine.
Two weeks later said neighbour knocked on his door asking if his CCTV still covered her car as she had her number plates stolen.
Oh the irony! ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On 09/11/2016 14:48, T i m wrote:

as long as they meet the legal requirements for use they are fine. Generally the non registered suppliers are based outside the UK, and so are outside the domain of the regulations over supply, recording and retaining details of the purchaser etc.
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 14:56:00 +0000, MrCheerful
Ok, so that would include the actual plate / letters AND the BS value, Makers, supplier and their postcode etc MrC?

And many that aren't (or they are flying these things in). ;-)
I guess I know the answer but doesn't the fact that you *can* get these plates so easily / cheaply make a mockery of the whole 'rules' thing?
Ok, what if the plates were perfectly acceptable re the size, backing and lettering, carried the BS mark but not the other info (maker / postcode etc), would anyone be interested then (Plod / MOT)?
Cheers, T i m
p.s. Although I think the BS insists that the other info is present so you can't have that on a plate without the other stuff?
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T i m wrote:

I imagine the only time the Police would go over them carefully would be if they were in book-throwing mode and were going over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb. Otherwise I imagine the font & size is the only thing they'd particularly note day-to-day.
--
Scott

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On 09-Nov-16 7:00 PM, Scott M wrote:

Apparently they are now in book throwing mode. News report today on Touch FM today was that Midlands police are mounting a crack down on number plates.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-11-04/police-crackdown-on-illegal-car-registration-plates/
Clearly part of law regarding suppliers markings can't be applied to cars reg before the law as they have no way to prove when the plates were made.
Only time I've seen a pull for a plate was a D postfix reg, silver letters on black plate attached to a Ford Sierra. The plate would be legal attached to a car of D postfix vintage but on a not a Ford Sierra.
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Peter Hill wrote:

> http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-11-04/police-crackdown-on ....
"Misrepresented" - so the same old, same old really. Not the same as checking for the maker's postcode.
--
Scott

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On 09/11/2016 19:14, Peter Hill wrote:

D pre-fix. Up to J prefix is OK iirc.
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On 09/11/2016 19:23, MrCheerful wrote:

Sorry, meant black and white plates: D prefix not OK, D suffix is OK
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:14:44 +0000, Peter Hill

That only mentions 'misrepresenting' though (that I'm not questioning as such).

True, but again I'm really only asking about those who are supposed to be displaying such 'extra' markings.

OK, so a 'blatant flouting of the rules (letter colours and background colours) but I'm still not clear if / when anyone would be bothered by the lack of this extra information on an otherwise legal plate (even if the vehicle was stopped for another reason).
Would it be just a FPN, does it carry points, etc etc?
Or maybe it's just so trivial an issue that no one (MOT / Plod) would ever bother with it (bother as in it cause you problems etc). I mean, years ago you would be caught the second you rode you bike on the pavement (or I would have), now everyone seems to be doing it and I've not seen someone pulled up over it for years and years?
Cheers, T i m
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On 09/11/2016 21:55, T i m wrote:

The actual regulations are... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/schedule/2/made ... and the penalties ... /19/made which refers to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/59 and I assume section 27A is not section 27, so that means level 3.
However, nowhere in the legislation is the supplier postcode etc. mentioned. We have to assume that is in BS AU 145d, but we have no way to check. In any case, you can claim that they comply with another standard recognized in an EEA state (e.g BS AU 145a). (A benefit of EC membership, where you don't actually have to be in the EC).
Checking the minutiae of the plates was removed from the MoT tests.
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wrote:

Thanks for that Nick.

So how does the legislation link in with what the DVLA puts out (where they do mention the small print)? Are they just (potentially) putting their spin on the regs?
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf
"To have a number plate made for your vehicle, you must go to a Registered Number Plate Supplier (RNPS)."

Yes, I think it is included under that BS (although it's a bit circular as you are supposed to have the BS marked on the plate and the BS also seems to determine that you should display the BS and other info (like maker and their postcode).
"The British Standard for number plates.
The British Standard sets out the characteristics of the number plate. This includes visibility, strength and reflectivity. To meet the British Standard, each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with the following information.
The British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d)
The name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier
The name and postcode of the supplying outlet"
This seems to support that:
http://www.jepsonandco.com/pdf/Number%20Plate%20Legislation.pdf
I don't know if the wording is importantly but it says the BS number 'Must' be displayed, along with the 'Original Suppliers name' but that you 'can' also display other stuff in an area assigned to 'personalisation details', like the suppliers name?

;-)

Check. I'd have to say I'm less bothered by an issue with the MOT as all it's likely to cause is a fail. Not the same as a FPN or worse etc.
Cheers, T i m
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On 12/11/2016 01:08, T i m wrote:

They are lying.
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wrote:

That was my concern.

Noted.
Cheers, T i m
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Problem might be a zealous MOT.
--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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