Number plate requirements.

Problem might be a zealous MOT.

Only if they sell number plates too :) I know my place does not check the fine print.

I've bought several sticker number plates from eBay - vinyl stickers with the correct characters stuck in the correct places - when updating various trailers for new(er) cars and stuck them over the existing plate. From more than a few feet away you'd be hard pushed to tell they weren't real plates. Like the show plates I don't think anyone would notice unless they were absolutely desperate to find some reason to do you.

Always seemed a preposterous bit of legislation to me.

And many actually state they are 'MOT / road legal' but even if they are physically, can they be (legally) if they aren't 'Registered number plate suppliers'?

Well, if they *are* a 'Registered number plate supplier' the idea of the legislation(?) is that you are required (as a vehicle registered keeper / owner[1]) to present the pre-requisite documents and obviously with a typical Internet order you don't. So, presumably someone could check up and see if you did present the right documents and if not you could both be in trouble?

So, if they don't somehow record information re the documents you present then as you say, how would anyone be able to prove that they weren't done to the letter of the law?

And that was really my question ... *if* anyone was likely to be bothered by the missing small print, what would the consequences be?

(Other than: "You could be fined up to £1,000 and your car will fail its MOT test if you drive with incorrectly displayed number plates." I mean).

A secondary question was 'would the missing small print be likely to trigger someone (MOT / Plod) to look closer at the validity of the plates or other things?' eg. Does *anyone* actually take notice of this particular set of rules? So far the answer from the panel seems to suggest not?

OOI, my local motorcycle shop is on the 'Registered number plate supplier list' but they have the plates made up elsewhere. So, is this where the small print would show the maker as different to the supplier?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think garages can get plates made up for you without having to show the (your) documents?

Good idea. I have drilled all my trailer plates on the same hole centres for the last 40 years so I can fit / swap them around easily (often using plastic number plate bolts where I can do the huts up with my fingers).

But if the background and letters conform to the relevant standard, from what has been discussed here so far they *are* 'real plates'?

And that was the $100 question ... what would they actually be able to do you for , if the plate was displaying the correct reg in the right way but was just not displaying the fine print or manufactured / supplied by a bona-fide place?

If it's like being caught with an air rifle in the wrong place and without good reason you can get done for 'Armed trespass', just as if it was a firearm, then the 'risk' of not having a pucker plate may not be worth a £1000 fine?

Quite, and that's fine as long as everyone else (MOT / Plod / Courts) think the same way.

You would like to think that this sort of thing would *always* be considered ITRW and with reason and discretion but I understand that isn't always the case. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

I've had a couple done that way for MoT fails.

Place I bought my car from had plates made up for my personal number - before the documents were issued with it on them.

I think the requirement is upon the supplier of number plates to check the details/documents, keep records, put there name o n the plate etc. So it is the supplier who has offended not the vehicle owner.

Not sure how they can if the plates are being made up for you via a garage, considering what information is required for you or I to get a(n 'official') plate made up?

That's another angle. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I like to think that everyone involved - garages, police, pukka plate makers - are all sufficiently prosaic to realise that pettifogging legislation about making genuine plates won't make it any harder to get a 'fake' genuine plate made up.

Last time I watched a plate being made up it was obvious the equipment needed was neither complicated or expensive. Not cheap enough for DIY, though. So unless those who make them, and the supply of the equipment and raw materials is controlled by law, it is going to be easy enough to get round the 'final use' regs.

Yes and whilst that may be true, it may not mean a jot if someone along the way *does* want to make it an issue.

Even if it's 'wasting Police time' if Plod go though the motions of checking out a plate that isn't bearing the small print, simply because it doesn't.

It's like taking your air-rifle to show your mate (in a suitable case), getting stopped because someone thinks it could be something more dangerous (like a shotgun or rifle) but still being done for 'armed trespass' because an air-rifle still constitutes a 'firearm' in such matters ... ;-(

You would hope common sense would always prevail but knowing my luck ...

Cheers, T i m

The actual regulations are...

... and the penalties ... /19/made which refers to and I assume section 27A is not section 27, so that means level 3. However, nowhere in the legislation is the supplier postcode etc. mentioned. We have to assume that is in BS AU 145d, but we have no way to check. In any case, you can claim that they comply with another standard recognized in an EEA state (e.g BS AU 145a). (A benefit of EC membership, where you don't actually have to be in the EC).

Checking the minutiae of the plates was removed from the MoT tests.

Thanks for that Nick.

So how does the legislation link in with what the DVLA puts out (where they do mention the small print)? Are they just (potentially) putting their spin on the regs?

"To have a number plate made for your vehicle, you must go to a Registered Number Plate Supplier (RNPS)."

Yes, I think it is included under that BS (although it's a bit circular as you are supposed to have the BS marked on the plate and the BS also seems to determine that you should display the BS and other info (like maker and their postcode).

"The British Standard for number plates.

The British Standard sets out the characteristics of the number plate. This includes visibility, strength and reflectivity. To meet the British Standard, each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with the following information.

The British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d)

The name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier

The name and postcode of the supplying outlet"

This seems to support that:

I don't know if the wording is importantly but it says the BS number 'Must' be displayed, along with the 'Original Suppliers name' but that you 'can' also display other stuff in an area assigned to 'personalisation details', like the suppliers name?

;-)

Check. I'd have to say I'm less bothered by an issue with the MOT as all it's likely to cause is a fail. Not the same as a FPN or worse etc.

Cheers, T i m

If someone 'illegal' can make a plate to spec, why would it be a problem to make one with the correct small print?

It's one of those ill thought out bits of legislation that do nothing at all to stop criminal use - but make it inconvenient for law abiders.

The ones I bought were advertised as legal for-road spec, but not for use on-road.

When I bought mine it was suggested that I was fuelling illegal activity, and denying trade to properly registered suppliers.

They are lying.

Yes. They have to state that to get round the laws. What isn't clear is if there are any actual differences.

I can't see any reason to give a monopoly to so called registered suppliers. Unless it actually did prevent the making of illegal plates.

It's one of those pointless laws - maybe introduced with good intentions - but not able to do what it set out to do. And no doubt promoted by those who would make more money from it.

It normally isn't, but part of my reason for asking about this is I've just had a pair of plates made up off t'internet and in spite of their listing showing and saying that they applied all the 'required small print', they didn't.

Quite.

Yup, and *if* the rules are toothless you can see why many may not bother to abide by them.

Cheers, T i m